Heavy Bombers

All I can say is that the diagram you posted above the typical design bomb load was ~2,048 pounds. That sounds like a very early version of the plane, a B-17B maybe? In any case, where does the 17,600 pound bomb load come from? That is listed on every single source book I have ever read! PS, the placard at the SAC and USAF Museums both read 17,600 pounds. My only idea is that during the turbulent times of war, that many changes to said works as the pilots manual you site were printed with references to past models, or changes not up dated? Also, I can not imagine that the two planes would be so drastically different in such a crucial way?
Lastly, why have 34-42 spaces for bomb racks if it could only carry the ~2,048 pounds listed on that document?
PPS. What was the total fuel load with the Tokyo tanks in the wings and one auxiliary 700 Gallon tank in the Port side Bomb bay?

 

Sorry, but I give up...you can lead a horse to water...

3,600 gallons with two 410-gallon auxiliary bomb-bay tanks. The inboard and outboard wingtip tanks held 540 gallons total per wing so 1,080, the engine tanks totaled 1,276, and the feeder system 424.

 

I like this guy. totally not gay to say that.

maybe I missed something - which I often do- regarding defensive firepower...which bomber would i choose, if had to fight in it...the mighty .50, or a rifle calibre...hmmm

cheers shooter18

 

The fifty for sure IMO...rifle calibre weapons tend to have a greater rate of fire...bit just think how little damage a .303 hit would do...one has to repeatedly hit it to have a good chance of significant damage...on the other hand greater rate of fire and taking hits may very well put an attacking pilot off, and make him vear off his attack.
The B-17G would be my choice (theres a reason its called the flying fortress).
I do like the H8K Japanese flying boat...5 x 20mm and 5 x .303s! A slow fat target, but get in range and you could be shredded...

 

Maximum Range: 3,750 miles - (approximately 1,600 miles with 6,000 pound bomb load)
Armament: Twelve .50 caliber machine guns.
Bomb Load: 20,000 pounds, maximum.
Fuel Load: 2,780 gallons overload.
B-17 Specs - Gulf Coast Wing of the Commemorative Air Force
B-17 Specs - Gulf Coast Wing of the Commemorative Air Force

I FIND NEW THINGS TO SUPPORT MY ARGUMENTS Each time I look! DATT! BIT OM THE BUTT BY THE DREDDED CAPS LOCK MONSTER AGAIN!
Note that this group of B-17 flyers that are actually flying one, lists a maximum bomb load of 20,000 pounds and an MTO of 72,000 pounds!

 

Missed part of this conversation about "defensive"firepower? Can you please send me a post number or quote to see what I missed? Thank you, sincerely.

 

Show me one mission report...Just one...That had the B-17 carrying 20,000 pounds.

 

I like the big .50 because of the MV and BC which give it an effective range of over one mile. ( 1,800 Merters at which point it will damage or destroy any single part of the typical fighter plane!) PS. the M3 version of the gun which has the same basic rate of fire as the Colt-Browning .303 used in most RAF planes! It was also used from late '44 on in some fighters.

 

I also noticed that the site says the armament was twelve .50cals...

But, they have these diagrams

and

Showing thirteen .50 cals.

 

Wing: Span 103 feet 9 inches; Area = 1420 square feet

• Tail: Span 43 feet; 331.1 square feet

• Overall Length: 74 feet 9 inches

• Rudder: 19 feet 1 inch

• Gross Weight: 65,000 pounds uo tp 72,000 pounds

• Top Speed: 287 miles per hour

• Cruising Speed: 160 miles per hour

• Maximum Range: 3,750 miles - (approximately 1,600 miles with 6,000 pound bomb load)

• Armament: Twelve .50 caliber machine guns

• Bomb Load: 20,000 pounds, maximum

• Fuel Load: 2,780 gallons overload. 3,600 gallons with bomb bay tanks

• Service Ceiling: 36,000 feet

• Power: Four Wright R-1820-97, 1200 horsepower radial engines

• Crew: 10 - Pilot and Co-Pilot, Engineer, Bombardier, Navigator, Radio Operator, Two Waist Gunners, Tail Gunner and Ball Turret Gunner

I just wanted to post the entire placard from the Confederate AF's web site. I have emboldened some of the particular points, just to make it easier to find.

 

They left out the Radio Compartment gun as not worth the weight in most of the last half of the ~7,600 G models made by all three of the BVD group.

 

I stated this because there is a point on the document where it states the design bomb load is just over 2,000 pounds. I'll go back and copy the relevant part of the original post in the next post?

 

Note that the "Design

Note that the "Design useful bomb load 2,064 pounds" in the bottom right panel. It also states that the "Overload gross wt. 48,726 Lbs" is 23,274 pounds under the MTO listed on all of the placards I have seen? I do not know what model plane this chart is for, but it certainly is not a late model G variant! And it lists a maximum bomb load of 9,600 pounds in the left hand list of bombs by type at the same time as the bottom right panel shows a maximum bomb load of 2,064 Lbs?
Lots of spainin to do Ricky!

 

my bad, shooter...
I should not contribute while working off a 2 inch screen.

 

Yes you should...too many "serious" people on board at the moment...

 

Sigh...note your own self the "AN 01-20EG" at the top of the page? That is Erection and Maintenance Instructions for Army Model B-17G, British Model Fortress II, dated 25 August 1944. Overload gross weight is the point at which the aircraft goes into overloaded condition. If you look at the flight operation data for the B-17F in Appendix II to AN 01-20EF-1, Pilot's Manual for the B-17 Flying Fortress, you will note that the flight operation charts offer various scenarios for MTO and for whether or not there is an external bomb load. The typical MTO's are for no external load and MTO weights of 40,000-45,000 pounds, 45,000-50,000 pounds, 50,000-55,000 pounds, 55,000-60,000 pounds, and 60,000-65,000 pounds, external load of two 2,000-lb bombs and MTO weights of 50,000-55,000 pounds, 55,000-60,000 pounds, and 60,000-65,000 pounds, or two 4,000-lb bombs and MTO weights of 55,000-60,000 pounds and 60,000-65,000 pounds. Note that as the external load goes up, the minimum MTO weight goes up. Then on page 98 you find the seven typical load conditions I-VII, which are combinations of "basic weight" (including crw of nine, nine .50 caliber MG, 3,500 rounds except I, which is 1,170 rounds, 900 lbs miscellaneous equipment, 144 gallons oil, and 1,500 lbs "extra wing tanks in conditions I, II, III, IV, V, and VII), "bomb load" (internal and external), and fuel. Total weights in the seven conditions vary from 51,700 (VII with no bomb load), 65,000 (I, II, and V), 57,000 (VI with no bomb load and ferry tanks). Both III and IV have the same internal bomb load, 6,000 lbs, but III is 64,200 lbs with 16,900 lbs of fuel, while IV is 57,700 and 10,400 pounds of fuel.

Then you get into the take off run and the type of surface for each of the loads...more weight equals longer take off run and harder surface required. More bombs equals less fuel, so shorter range. Fewer bombs equals greater range. External bomb loads increase weight and drag, so really decrease range, thus my earlier calculation for that. Greater load and drag also reduces time to altitude and effective ceiling, while making the aircraft less maneuverable, which was critical for formation flying.

See? They're trade offs.

I'm tired of splainin' thins to you Lucy!