Help Gaining Info from Separation Papers

Hello!

I have been trying to track down a more detailed history of my grandfather's service in the Italian Campaign. I have his Separatoin/Honorable Discharge form, but am not seeing a lot to go on in terms of "who" he was with. I knew from him (and it was confirmed from sheet) that he was in Italy. I know he was one of the first into Rome (according to him, but he is gone now so can't reconfirm). I believe he was used to "fill in" with an existing unit. He said from Texas, but now that I know he was a part of the 5th Army, which is based out of Texas, that becomes less helpful.

I'm going to attach a copy. Any help tracking down wheres/whens/with whom would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Tressa White

 

I think that you can request more paperwork than that. I'm not sure exactly what to ask for though. I do know that about the same time one of my sisters and I separately asked for my dad's documentation and she got more than I did. I'm not sure if she worded her request better or just got lucky. I expect more knowledgeable individuals to comment on this shortly. Good luck.

 

It entirely depends on who does the request. Also for those who are told the records were destroyed, there is a back up copy for almost all service men from WW2. There is a huge disconnect with the public. You can also check with the courthouse of his county and see if there is anything.

Records are also are all over the board on information on unit.

Not sure how you know he was 5th, but any information can be a piece to the puzzle. Keep searching. However, you may never find out. Sometimes people get lucky and easily stumble on something. Other times times it takes tenacity.

When I was looking for 327 records, I tried for several years and National Archives II and kept getting replies that the records didn't exist anymore. Then out of the blue someone there emailed me and said he'd found them. 3 boxes full. Many were in deteriorating condition and fading.

However, somewhere in St. Louis there is likely a microfilm copy of his records that may have more.

You can also hire professionals that charge a pretty good price.

For 327 guys, I"ll get requests. Sometimes I know the name and right where to look. Other times I can find nothing, even with some information to help. Sometimes I say to the person to contact me periodically. Sometimes I find the info and the person never bothers to contact me back. One lady in particular never new her father killed in Holland. I stumbled on a bunch of stuff about him. Her email doesn't work.

 

I'm going on the assumption he was somewhere in the 5th, because they were the ones involved in Italy. I suppose nothing is concrete, though.

When I went to the archives to request more documentation, they had me fill out some questions and then told me they were just going to send me his discharge papers (which I have). From your experience, should I fill out a request anyways and see what comes?

I normally do genealogy, so when my mom/aunt/uncles asked if I could find anything, I really didn't think it would be that different - it's all online now, eh?! I feel like I am in way over my head!

 

The 5th Army us currently based in Texas, but it was formed in North Africa in 1943. The Allied force in Italy was the 15th Army Group made up of the 8th British Army and the 5th US Army. So, you are correct that he would have been in the 5th Army and that it doesn't help too much. You mentioned that he was a "fill in" for a Texas unit. The 36th Infantry Division was a Texas National Guard Division and was very much involved in the Italian Campaign. The 141st and 143rd Infantry Regiments of the 36th took very heavy casualties in their attempts to cross the Rapido River. Now, I'm not saying he was in the 36th ID, but they best fit the information we have at this time.

 

Check with any living relatives and see if they have any letters from him or photos in uniform.An APO address could help.Check his home town news paper,a story may have been written about him being wounded.
Don't give up,It will be worth it.

 

Good observations, Lou. While "Italian Campaign" is often used to generally refer to the Allied operations in Italy, it is odd that it is used in box #32.

 

36th ID is the best fit....there is book called: "The ' T ' Patcher" which has rosters and WIA / KIA lists. Seems like there is also something if you google Texas Military Museum.

Steve Schaeg is an excellent resource for all things 36th ID; hopefully he will chime in.

 

Jeff is right, he was wounded and discharged from from the hospital, he definitely has a VA file, and it wasn't involved in the fire. The VA keep their archived records at St. Louis. I don't have the address right now, but should be listed either on the V A website or the NARA site. I got my brothers VA records and it was a ton of stuff.
Go through the threads in this section titled "obtaining personnel records". There are lots of ideas-some information will lead you to other sources and finally it comes together. Just like genealogy.

Just found the address of the VA Records Center,

VA Records Management Center
4300 Goodfellow Blvd., Bldg. 104
St. Louis, MO 63120


Mailing Address:
P.O. Box 5020
St. Louis , MO 63115
Phone: 888-533-4558 Or 888-533-4558
Fax: 314-679-3615
View Map: Bing - MapQuest - Google

 

Thanks to everyone that has read/responded - I'm reading all your wisdom and have a few nets out. I've emailed someone with the Texas Military Museum about the 36th roster. I'm going to visit my great aunt this weekend to see what she remembers and if she has any old photos. And I've asked my sister (an Iraq war veteran) about helping find VA records (she's there pretty often).

I've found the AAR for the 141st during the months my grandfather was in action - pretty grim reading.

I don't know enough about the qualifications to receive any individual medals to have even noticed if there is an issue. My grandfather kept them in a drawer. My mom found them about 15 years ago (so 10 years before he died) and had them framed and put up in his house. He didn't like to talk about the war, and the medals were a reminder.

I'll share any new information I find, in hopes you all can continue to help!

 

We are all ready and willing to help.The only thing we ask is that you don't disappear.Keep us up to date.We all find great satisfaction when a mystery is solved!
Bob

 

I heard back from the very wonderful and helpful Lisa Sharik at the Texas Military Museum earlier today. After sending her the image I attached on this site, she sent back:

"Ms. White:
The unit information on the form- “Infantry Unassigned” is completely unhelpful ) but I’ve attached a card which is marked Neil F Devine, with an address in Los Angles California. The dates appear to match the information you sent in his DD214 which shows that your grandfather arrived in Italy in March 1944 and wounded on June 16, 1944. Soldiers were often carried on the books for a period of time if they were wounded until the unit determined they were not coming back due to their injuries or being transferred etc… So the date of June 25, 1944 as an end date for the soldier would fit. Also I checked the actual roster this card was typed from and it shows “PH” for Purple Heart medal so that would fit with “Neil F Devine” being wounded and the “F” could certainly be a typo, as the cards were typed by German clerks in the summer of 1945 and there are many errors.

So if this is your grandfather it shows he served with Company F, 143rd Infantry Regiment, 36th Infantry Division. Company F is a Rifle Company but each Rifle Company had a Weapons Platoon as part of it, see attached chart. Since your grandfather’s DD214 show “Light Machine Gunner” that means he was part of a 4 person squad carrying a Browning Model 1919A4 machine gun. He might have carried the gun, he might have carried the ammo, the 4 men were a unit to fire and protect the weapon when it was firing. Our reenactors demonstrate this weapon and how it was deployed by the soldiers at our Close Assault events every year.

The After Action Report for the 143rd on the early morning of June 15/16 notes- “ Sporadic SP fire from behind the POIO di MOSCONA hill mass fell on portions of Company “F” but soon the SP withdrew”. SP stands for “self propelled” are refers to the type of German Artillery which was firing on the unit. So your grandfather was wounded by German Artillery fire. The “Poio” in the report should actually be “Poggio” and is the name of a hill. I’ve attached a picture of this hill. It is near Grosseto, Italy. I do not have the exact location of Company F but it would have been within firing range( a couple thousand yards?) of the hill."

Last night, before I received this information, my aunt said that she thought Neil enlisted somewhere other than MI, possibly on the west coast. Apparently he was on a road trip with a buddy and they decided to just enlist, thinking that it would get them a better position (it didn't). So this sounds really promising! BUT, I'm still going to keep looking for some concrete confirmation.

I have sent in a request for a copy of his STR and OMPF. Obviously, it could be quite a while until I get anything back from them. Until then, I'll keep asking around the family.

 

That's terrific. Be tenacious.

 

That's great news, Tressa. I'm very happy to see you making so much progress so quickly. It doesn't happen that way too often. Keep us posted on anything new you find out.