Hitler assasinated

The Gestapo was following EVERYBODY involved in the plot. It was simply too obvious for the Gestapo that an anti-nazi politician as Karl Goerdeler (the former mayor of Leipzig) and the most anti-nazi general, Ludwig Beck (former chief of staff of the Army) were exchanging letters or oral messages...

 

This is my first post,so be gentle with me


If for example the plot was to kill Both Hitler and Himmler simotaniously,is it possable with plan "valkyrie" in whish all SS troops were put under arrest by wermacht troops,assentially takeing away the posability for a civil war
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

With Beck as President of the provisianal government (whom is known to be a anti Nazi) first orders of the day should be to hold all SS troops and all firld commanders whom could be a threat to this new government either shot on sight,or be taken into a maximum security holding tank.

Orders for all active units on the western front surrender unconditianaly to the nearest western military power in there zone of oporations.

Orders for all field units fighting on the east front to dig in on fortified earthworks and prepair for a posable large skale blitzkreig type of soviet offensive.with the aims of punching a huge break in German lines and raceing to gobble up asmuch territory as posable.

After these two things have been done,the provisional governments next task would be to prove to the Western Allies that this new government has no ties with the Nazis,and that this new government is willing to make an unconditional surrender if thats what they wish.

But befor surrendering they could plead with the Allies telling them that they must asoon as posable race to Berlin or elts the Russians may try and take all of Europe or atleast all of eastern Europe with one huge manouver.And that the Wermacht is at this time dug in and awaiting Allied orders/assistance.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

We all know how George S. Patton felt about the communist reds and how in a speach he gave once even hinted at joining the GErmans in fighting Communisim.

After the failed Plot Winston Churchill had said that these few daring men deserved the highest honors for doing what they did,In seeing Evil and doing something about it,this shows Him to be a reasanable man.

Fieldmarshal Gurd von Rudstet Gave the order to keep the Panzer divisions in the rear and off the beaches for the defense of France,somehow they could turn this instance into a form of Sabotage the German highcommand had done to hinder the defenses the German Army put in France.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now we look at the Soviet camp.The Russians have been know for acuseing the western powers of hideing,or conspireing against Russia with the Germans on maney ocations.

They way i see it The Reds would do one of three things.

1. Except this new German government and work with the post war governments on drawing up post war pilicy. fat chance

2. Say that the agreement for unconditioanl surrender is still valid and will keep pushing on with the war.

3. Stalin will see this as a Tri German British American Military Alliance,with all guns trained on Moscow,and in turn Stalin will draw plans for a major counter stroke in an attempt to gobble up as much Eastern euro territory befor the Western powers can manouver to the front.

Stalin will realise that even with Russias large pulation they can't hope to last a year or so with the combined industrial might of this new Alliance and will go looking for Allies. Can you see the U.S.S.R-China-Cuba-Korea in a Global communist Empire

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well i hope i stayed in the lined of this subject,i may have gone alittle off base twords the end.

And i realise i left the Japanese out of this but,thats not to relivent,and i know it's the dawning of the Nuclear age and with out Nukes,The Reds can't hope to win without them. But this will look pretty good for a What if Game,and it is in my eyes pheasable.

 

By July, the Allied breakout and Soviet Bagration had already started, so the fundamental events of summer of 1944 were already underway.

It would have taken all of July-August for organizers of the plot to create a new government, organize the various departments, and establish a firm security footing. Also, there might have been further coups or revolutions internally.

So if the new government started outreach efforts to the Allies in September, it would take some time for those talks to initiate, and then probably quickly fail when the Allies stuck to unconditional surrender.

So the new government would fight fall-winter of 1944 differently, but probably wouldn't surrender until Allied troops were on German soil and the Rhine breached. So surrender would probably be early 1945 instead of May 1945.

 

At that point in the war it wouldn't really matter. As said before all the major offensives had already been launched and the outcome of the war would have been no different.

The better question would be what if Hitler was killed in 1939?

 

seems an old post, thread, so I'll repost an old reply. If Hitler had been killed, the Nazi party leaders would also be arrested and held for trial (if the plan had gone without hitch). Without that event, the German populace might just as easily turned against the conspirators and blamed them for all the embarrassments which would be forthcoming in military defeats. "If only Hitler were alive, this tragedy would not be ours to bear. Stabbed in the back again!" i.e. turning Hitler into a martyr, the very thing the western allies wished to avoid when they canceled the SIS; "Foxley Operation".

Along with the officers' conspiracy led by Henning von Tresckow, Claus Schenk von Stauffenberg, and Friedrich Olbricht, there was also a civilian opposition group led by Dr. Carl Goerdeler, and Ambassador Ulrich von Hassell, who was relieved of his post in 1938, and others.

These men were joined shortly after the beginning of the war by high-ranking former SPD and trade union officials, such as Julius Leber, former Reichstag Deputy, and Wilhelm Leuschner, former Minister of the Interior in Hesse, with their extensive network of connections to former colleagues and party friends. The civilian opposition group was in contact, to various degrees, with the officers' conspiracy via Ludwig Beck, the former General Chief-of-Staff; it was more or less in the know about the plot to overthrow the government and in June of 1944 formed the main contingent, in various configurations, of the provisional government planned. These men had both plans and sympathizers in the western allies camp, if they had succeeded the "provisional government" might have been listened to by the west at least.

Goerdeler went through several Cabinet lists over the years, but the final one that was agreed to in June 1944 that would have formed the Cabinet of the anti-Nazi provisional government had the July 20th Bomb plot succeeded:

Regent (Reichsverweser) : General Ludwig Beck
State Secretary to the Regent: Count Ulrich Schwerin-Schwandenfeld
Chancellor: Dr. Carl Goerdeler (DNVP)
State Secretary to the Chancellor: Count Peter Yorck von Wartenburg.
Vice-Chancellor: Wilhelm Leuschner (SPD)
Deputy Vice-Chancellor: Jakob Kaiser (Christian Trade Union leader)
Minister of War: General Friedrich Olbricht
State Secretary to the Minister of War: Colonel Count von Stauffenberg
Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces: Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben
Commander in Chief of the Army: General Erich Hoepner
Minister of the Interior: Julius Leber (SPD)
Minister of Economics: Dr. Paul Lejeune-Jung (lawyer and economist)
Minister of Finance: Ewald Loeser (formerly of the DNVP)
Minister of Justice: Joesph Wirmer (Zentrum)
Minister of Education: Eugen Bolz (Zentrum)
Minister of Agriculture: Andreas Hermes (Zentrum)
Minister of Reconstruction: Bernhard Letterhaus (Christian Trade Union leader)
Minister of Information: Theodor Haubach (SPD)
The position of Minister of Foreign Affairs would have went to either Ulrich von Hassel (former ambassador to Italy) or Count von der Shulenburg (former ambassador to the Soviet Union) depending upon whatever the Western powers or the Soviet Union signed a armistice with the new German government first.

This list is on pages 622-623 from; The Nemesis of Power; The German Army In Politics (Macmillan, London)

Here is the speech and SUMMONS TO THE GERMAN PEOPLE to be delivered after the successful assassination of Hitler, by von Stauffenberg. Dr. Carl Goerdeler of course never delivers the speech, and is executed in Jan. ’45.

As a traditional conservative, Dr. Goerdeler was the political heart and soul of the conspiracy. Initially hoping to steer Hitler away from his malevolent aims, Goerdeler soon abandoned all hope of doing so. In 1937 Goerdeler resigns his post as Mayor of Leipzig in protest over the removal of the statue of Jewish composer Felix Mendelssohn. After resigning Goerdeler becomes passionately committed to overthrowing Hitler and the Nazi regime. And he spends the rest of his life planning a new German state (not a return to the failed Weimar Republic) that would follow a successful coup d'etat. Consequently, the conspirators all agree that Goerdeler should become acting chancellor until elections can be held. This is his undelivered speech, which shows that many of the "non-party" Germans knew full well what was going on in Nazi Germany under Hitler.

Germans!

Monstrosities have taken place before our eyes in the years just past. Hitler, acting against the advice of experts, has unscrupulously sacrificed whole armies to his greed for glory, his arrogance for power, his blasphemous delusion that he is the chosen and blessed instrument of "Providence!".

Not called by the German people, but arrived at the head of the government through the worst kind of intrigues, he has caused confusion with his demonic arts and his lies, by monstrous wastefulness that seemed to bring advantage to all, but in reality plunged the German people into enormous debts. In order to keep himself in power, he bound up all this in an unbridled regime of terror, he destroyed justice, put a ban on decency, mocked the divine commandments of simple humanity, and put an end to the happiness of millions of human beings. With fatal inevitability, his mad contempt for all peoples plunged our people into misery.

His usurped generalship led our brave sons, fathers, husbands and brothers to their doom. His bloody terror against the defenseless covered the German name with disgrace.

He has enthroned lawlessness, rape of conscience, crime and corruption in a land that has always prided itself on lawfulness and integrity. He has punished and persecuted the honesty and truthfulness by which even the humblest people tries, as its greatest task, to bring up its children. Both public life and individual existence are threatened by a fatal poison. This must not be. It cannot go on this way! No more may the lives and deaths of our men, women and children be misused for such ends. We would not be worthy of our fathers, we would be despised by our children, if we lacked the courage to do everything, literally everything, in order to cast out this terrible danger, and to win back our self-respect.

To this end, we have taken over the power of state, after having examined our consciences before God. Our brave armed forces are the guarantor of security and order. The police will fulfill their duties. Each official shall obey only the law, only his conscience, and shall discharge his duties according to his expert knowledge. All of you may contribute by showing discipline and faith. Fill your daily work with new hope! Help one another! Your tormented souls shall find peace and confidence once more. Alien to all hate, we shall strive toward inner peace. With dignity we shall strive for outer reconciliation. Our first task will be to clean up the corruption of this war, and to put an end to the destruction of human life and of cultural economic treasure behind the fronts. We all know that we are not masters of war and peace. We will trust in our incomparable armed farces and in our faith that God gives humans tasks to perform. We will sacrifice everything for the defense of our fatherland and for the restoration of a just and solemn order. We will live once more in respect for the divine commandments, in cleanliness and truth, for honor and freedom!

Germans! Hitler's tyranny is broken. Within the past years, we have witnessed monstrosities. Hitler, not called by the German people, but through the worst sort of intrigues, has applied his demonic arts and his lies to confuse the minds and souls of our people. He committed immense extravagances that seemed to bring advantages to all, but in reality plunged us into debt and scarcity. Indeed, he even achieved fatal deception beyond the German borders. In order to keep himself in power, he established a reign of terror. Once our people could be rightly proud of its integrity, its lawfulness. But Hitler has mocked the divine commandments, has destroyed justice, has ostracized decency, has abolished the happiness of millions. He has thought nothing of the honor, dignity, freedom, life of others. Many Germans, as well as members of other nationalities, have been languishing in concentration camps for years, subjected to the greatest torments, often exposed to terrible tortures. Many, many have died. Our good name has been befouled with mass murder. With blood-stained hands Hitler has walked his false way, leaving behind him tears, suffering and misery. With fatal inevitability, his mad contempt for all human emotions has plunged our people into disaster. With his presumpted (sic) mantle of genius, he has led our brave soldiers to their destruction.

In this war, the intoxication with power, the exaggeration of self, and the obsession with conquest have found their final expression. Our soldiers' bravery and dedication have been senselessly wasted. Againstthe advice of experts, Hitler has sacrificed whole armies to his hunger for glory, his arrogance of power, his blasphemous delusion that he was the chosen and blessed instrument of Providence. We shall publicly present the evidence for this monstrous treason against the German people and against its soul; the evidence for the total circumvention of the law, for the mockery of the ideal that the public weal comes first-for shameless corruption. Whoever still doubts these terrible truths, because he thinks it impossible that such evil could hide behind such high-sounding words, will learn better when the facts are known. It could not go on like this!

We would not be worthy of our fathers, we would earn the contempt of our children, if we lacked the courage to do everything, everything conceivable, to avert the terrible peril and to achieve self-respect once more. Over and over, Hitler has violated the oath given to the people ten years ago. He has done so by violating the law, human and divine. Therefore no soldier, no official, not a single citizen is bound to him by oath any longer. In this highest emergency, I have acted together with men from all sectors of the population, from all parts of the fatherland. I have taken over the leadership of the German Reich for the present, and have ordered the establishment of a government under Reich Chancellor. It has taken up its tasks. The high command of the armed forces has been assumed by General Ludwig Beck whose leadership has been acknowledged by the commanders at all fronts. These men have had a meeting of minds with me in order to prevent collapse. We come before you at a grave hour. We are ruled by our responsibility before God, our people and its history, the precious blood sacrifices of two World Wars, the steadily mounting distress of the homeland, the misery of other peoples as well, the concern for the future of our youth. The principles and aims of the government will be made known. They are binding until there is a possibility to have the German people make the decision.

Our goal is a true community of the people, based on respect, readiness to help, and social justice. We seek fear of God instead of self-idolatry, justice and freedom instead of violence and terror, truth and cleanliness instead of lies and selfishness. We want to restore our honor, and thereby our reputation in the community of peoples. We want to contribute our best strength to heal the wounds that this war has inflicted on peoples everywhere and to revive the trust among
them.

The guilty ones who have disgraced the good name of our people and have brought so much unhappiness upon us and upon other peoples will be punished. We want to make an end to the hopeless idea that this war must go on indefinitely. We are striving for a just peace that will put peaceful cooperation in place of self- laceration and destruction of others. Such a peace can be based only on respect for the freedom and equality of all peoples. I call on all decent Germans, men and women of all walks of life. I call on the German youth. I rely on the glad cooperation of the Christian churches. Have courage and confidence! The task is enormously difficult. I cannot and will not make empty promises to you. We will have to work hard to slowly forge ahead and upward once more. But we shall travel this road as a free people in decency, and we shall find peace of conscience once more. May everyone fulfill his duty! May everyone cooperate in the rescue of the fatherland! Today you know what is at stake, what our motives and intentions are. The right of ultimate self-defense and the duty of self-preservation trace the way for us and for you.

What has been our lot was not the promised state of a firm and wise leadership, but a terrible tyranny. Our soldiers' courage unto death, their fighting skill have been shamelessly misused. Our homeland has been exposed to misery and destruction, without scruples on the part of the destroyers. We reached the final link in a chain of deeds that mocked the law when Hitler, in his Reichstag speech of April 25, 1942, declared all Germans beyond the pale, by taking on himself the right to alter or reverse any sentence at his own discretion. With that arrogance, he led us to a lowest ebb of lawlessness, one that was unknown heretofore in the life of civilized peoples and that cannot be surpassed. He took the proud Germany of equal rights for all, and made it into a community of slaves, in which the citizen no longer has a chance to defend himself against injustice.

Highest personages, including Adolf Hitler himself, have committed, ordered and tolerated innumerable crimes against life and limb, against property and honor. Men in high positions have enriched themselves from public resources, or from wealth they have extorted from others. Hermann Goering leads them all. We do not want to see the German honor defiled by such parasites. We do not want to be led by scoundrels who cannot distinguish between mine and thine, who misuse their positions in order to lead a luxurious life in spectacular living quarters, in the midst of war, while the people are suffering; while at the front our sons, husbands, loved ones are fighting and dying in action; while the mad destruction of total war is roging throughout the interior of our homeland. An adventurous, power-hungry foreign policy has brought our people into a position the seriousness of which can no longer be overlooked. Consideration for the war keeps us from calling everything by name. But you know and you feel the dilemma to which conscienceless behavior and madness have led us all. Honest men of all walks of life and from all areas will be appointed by us, and their names will be made known to you. These men will conscientiously examine everything that has happened. They will inform you in detail about the state of affairs in which we stand today, and they will report as soon as the situation permits. There is one thing, however, that we can tell you right now: The edifice of a regime that has been built an injustice, arbitrariness, crimes of all sorts, selfishness, lies, will be torn down. The foundations of the new structure of state will be the solid bases of human relationship-law and truth, decency, cleanliness, reason, consideration far one another, and consideration also for the life-interests of the other God-created peoples.

If we do not want to experience a second November 1, then the last moment has come for putting this plan into force. In the next few days, we shall openly call to account all those who are responsible for the crimes of the government, those who act without consideration for their responsibility. Hard work lies ahead of us in all areas of life. There is no magic way to erase the destruction that has taken place, the damage to every foundation of decent human society.

Together we will save the fatherland and shape a community based on duty and right. We cannot hold out to you an easing of the conditions of life, either during the war or during the time of reconstruction. But think what is at stake. For what do you want to live and die? For what are our soldiers to fight and die in action? For the right, for freedom, honor and decency; or for crime, terror, disgrace and ruin? Only if you answer the questions aright will there be hope of finishing this war, which has became an unholy second World War, on honorable terms and in a way that will maintain Germany's life-interests. But this goal is not the only deciding factor. What is decisive for us is that we can no longer tolerate the dishonoring of our people and the besmirching of our good name by impudent criminals and liars. For if they were permitted to carry an their dirty business, then not even our children and our grandchildren would have an opportunity to rebuild the fatherland on clean foundations. You shall learn about the criminals and their crimes as soon as possible. You will then be in a position to realize for yourselves that monstrosities have taken place. Yet we shall also take care that there will be only just penalties, and only according to law. Let no one among you be moved to a rash action. For there is something that has priority over all feelings of revenge. That is the necessity of re-establishing a state of equal justice for all, under a just leadership.

Whoever has an accusation against someone because of an injustice should file charges himself, or through a trusted representative, at the office of same authority. All these authorities are herewith charged with passing an the accusations to the new Reich minister of justice, who is to see to their orderly and prompt consideration. Everyone will receive on answer to his plea. Only those accusations will be processed that are backed by the name of the accuser. All others will go, without examination, where they belong: into the waste-paper basket. If an accusation is founded, the procedure prescribed by law will be set in motion. But at the same time, everyone who makes an accusation that he knows to be false will be brought to account. Far we insist an taking the honor of our fellow-citizens and the obligations of decency seriously once more.

No one who has a clear conscience need be afraid. We are not dealing with the question; member of the party or member of the people? Away with those distinctions which, though alien to the German character, have been grafted onto it. Nor are we dealing with the question: SS, SA, or any other organization. We are dealing with the question: decent or indecent? Everyone must continue to do his duty wherever he is, obeying only the laws and decrees of the new authority. The destiny of our hard-fighting soldiers depends on everyone's giving his utmost on the home front. To the soldiers and the beloved dead we owe everything. They and our wounded take precedence over all other cares.

It is natural that you will feel deep emotion because this event has finally taken place. From now on you are free again-as far as consideration of the war allows-to express your thoughts and your feelings and to follow your conscience. See to it that our beloved fatherland does not suffer from this freedom. The war still imposes restrictions on us all. We will take care that everything is done according to the welfare of the fatherland.The internal clean-up of corruption and crime in Germany, the restoration of right and decency without distinction as to the individual, yet without any prejudice against those who think otherwise, can be achieved quickly and simply ifeverybody contributes his share. That can be expected of all persons of good will, for their own happiness depends an the restoration of these values. Among those who know this are they who believed up to now that they could or should deny it.

None of us can untie the fetters of the controlled economy during the war. For the time being, we can and will carry through only simplifications of that economic order. We will tackle cases of profiteering for which the ground was prepared by the controlled economy. As soon thereafter as possible, we shall restore freedom and individual initiative in economy as in family, in community as in state. Matters appear gravest in the field of foreign policy. Here we have to reckon with the interests and the intentions of other peoples. We do not know yet what stand countries outside Germany will take toward us. We had to act from the demands of our consciences. Still, we want to tell you what we see ahead as foreign-policy goals. We Germans are no more alone in this world han any other people. Therefore we must come to terms with the existence, characteristics and interests of other peoples-for our own good. We are convinced that this process of coming to terms is not to be achieved by force of arms. For the more that God has permitted us to develop our techniques through our intellectual capacities, the more destructive has war become. It destroys that very basis for human life on which the flourishing of the mental capacities depends.

In the end, war destroys itself. Therefore we want a peaceful accommodation of the contrasts of interests that exist in this world-contrasts that are conditioned much less by people than by their environment.

We are convinced that such accommodation is possible, for quiet reflection shows that if is in the interest of all people. A prerequisite for it is that oil nations respect one another, and grant each people the right to form and administer on independent state.

The peoples best promote their economic and spiritual welfare when they work together to combine their various strengths in a harmony that pleases all. Such cooperation will bring about the most unhampered exchange of goods. Under such an accord, nations great and small have attained wealth and prosperity since the beginning of the 19th century. Now the problem is to restore that harmony as soon as possible. Every reasonable person will understand, however, that this restoration cannot be achieved from today to tomorrow without severe repercussions. There will need to be a meeting of minds of reasonable spokesmen of all peoples. The goal is to find the safest and shortest way to free everyone for the best possible achievement of his life-interests, within a framework of industrious activity and of regard for the interests of others.

For that reason, we consider it essential to end the mutual destruction and the wasting of each people's notional strength on acts of destruction. Every nation, with or without a role in the war, will have an immense load of difficulties to face in balancing off the material losses of this war. Such international cooperation is possible only if founded on a firm structure of acknowledged principles of fair play. Not even a simple game can be played to the end without a quarrel unless each player considers certain rules of the game. Even less is this possible when peoples who live under the most varying circumstances wont to loin in the greatest of tasks: the harmonious equalization of all national strengths.

We are of the belief that God wills this goal. Therefore we consider the best safeguard for the observance of such rules of the game to be the decent mental outlook, the obligation of conscience that stems from religious awareness. Yet we also recognize that such attitudes need a formulation in law, and that the imperfection of human beings makes it necessary also to entrust them to a protective power. As for this power, we acknowledge the independence of all states as they have evolved in the course of history, but we are prepared, too, for a harmonization of the various states, an a limited as well as on a large scale. The restoration of orderly public budgets is necessary, and as soon as possible. Without this first step, stable currencies cannot exist, and without them an orderly yet lively exchange of goods and services is impossible. We shall not hesitate to turn these necessities into accomplishments In doing so, we have to take into account the hard facts of this miserable war. But we shall see to it that even if foreign territories must still remain occupied at present, full self-government will be permitted again to those affected. The presence of German troops will be reduced to as small a burden as possible. For we know from our own painful experience how deeply it affects the soul of every people to see the soldiers of another nation on the sacred soil of the homeland. Thus, since we do not know what position the world will take towards us, we must continue the fight. All of us have many bitter experiences behind us. We are men who were accustomed to doing our duty under the most unpleasant circumstances.

We are men to take over a bad heritage without railing at the hitherto unfaithful administrators of our destiny. We do not seek to diminish our own responsibility, or to try to place ourselves in a better light, by loading our guilt on others' shoulders and by abusing others. We want to return once more to the language of civilized conduct, as it is observed as a matter of course in every German family where good manners are valued. So we call on you to become resolute within yourselves, and to achieve a confidence that is ready for sacrifices. Do not hate, but help. Do the greatest deed of all: Find the soul of our people again. By so doing, gain the strength to accomplish still more; to help our brave fighting men on the ground, on the sea and in the air to be still more effective.

Let us be at one with those fighting men, in the quiet confidence that no more German blood will be sacrificed for the greed for glory of an incompetent leadership, but only in defense of our life-interests. With God, for right, freedom, and the safeguarding of peaceful work.

(me again) Seems to myself to have been a "good man" in every sense of the word. Sorry that speech didn't copy as gracefully as it appeared on my old page, but the spacing seems to be different here. The "bomb plot" wasn't an "ad hoc" last hope, but it hinged on a number of things. Starting with Hitler's demise, second with the implimentation of the existing "Valkurie Plan" to quell civil war and gain control of the government in Berlin and other regional centers, and lastly the arrest and jailing of the top Nazis extant. Goebelles, Goering, Himmler, Borman, etc., and the conversion of the German Volk to the idea of a surrender with honor.

BTW, the "unconditional surrender" decree didn't mean NO conditions, only that the conditions would be dictated by the allies and accepted by the Axis powers without debate or negotiation. Italy received less draconian terms when they arrested Mussolini and threw the Fascists out of their government offices. It isn't outside of the realm of possibility that the same might just as well been extended to the German branch of the Axis. Just my opinion of course.