HM Ships "Coventry" and "Broadsword"

Accepting, as I do, that the above ships are post WW2 vessels, I may be taking advantage of this forum in posting this message, in which case please ignore it, but there has been other posts submitted on non WW2 naval matters, so I hope this one will engender reponses.

I have just watched a TV documentary on the loss of the Royal Navy's Type 42 destroyer HMS "Coventry" during the Falklands war. If I understood the programme correctly, four elderly Argentinian Skyhawks made one pass at the ships, during which three 1000 lb. bombs struck home - the two that hit the "Coventry" setting fires that eventually sunk her. Given that both ships were armed with the then latest anti aircraft missiles in addition to many other weapons - from turret mounted guns down to the personal arms of the sailors and marines, it defies belief that an attack of this nature could have been successful. Moreover, given the actions of many of the crew members depicted, I am glad that my father, who served in motor torpedo boats during WW2, is not alive to have seen the programme. Even the Captain appeared to be a week and vacillating man, and as for the petty officers and sailors, well, they were just bloody embarassing, being ill disciplined, lacking courage and just out for themselves. I know we no longer have the Navy of Nelson's day ( the actions of our sailors when recently captured by the Iranians confirm this ! ), but I had hoped for more in the Andrew of 20 plus years ago !

If there are any Jolly Jack tars out there who wish to reject the general tone of this programme, no-one would be happier to hear their views than me.
BG

 

try this place as it gives a good description of the attack

http://www.hmscoventry.co.uk/25thmay.html

not had chance to read it as at work

FNG

 

Well, it sounds to me, from what I read in FNG's article, that the crew did rather well after COVENTRY was hit. The chaos and confusion on board the sinking ship were reminiscent to me of similar accounts I have read about what was going on aboard ships in such straits in WW2; ditto the loss of communications. I do, however, question the judgement of the officers of both ships in declining assistance from the Sea Harrier CAP not once, but twice. I don't care how good you think your missile systems are, if friendly fighters are available, use them! Had the fighters jumped the Skyhawks, COVENTRY would more than likely not been sunk.

 

still not having read the article I linked to does it say why they declined the harrier help?

Had orders or comments been made to reserve the harriers for other higher priority duties such as CAP of the merchant ships/carriers or ground attack/air supremecy over the island?

Presumably if the ships felt confident of their air defence then they should not request the help unless absolutly needed as it would draw the CAP away from people with no or limited air defence

FNG

 

having read the article now (the boss has buggered off) it doesn't seem that bad.

The two ships had been fairly successful up to this attack and as such had some confidence in their defences.

The actuall attack was well coordinated and pressed home with some vigour. However all 4 planes attacked the one ship. 2 changed targets due to the incoming fire and it would seem that due to bad luck and confusion the other two got through the missle defences.

The coventry seems to have been extremely unlucky taking all three 1000lb bombs 2 of which exploded and the third causing significant entry holes.

The damage must have been huge to sink the ship in only 20 minutes when these should have been designed to expect damage across compartments.

of course you have to bear in mind that the article is effectivly written by the RN who seem to pass over the poor failures of the Sea Wolf in the way it is designed reset. They are also positive in the actions of the crew which is again to be expected.

FNG

 

Anti-aircraft picket boats.

In WW2 the US Navy specifically designated many destroyers to act as picket boats against the incoming Kamikaze aircraft . Sure, enough of these poor buggers got hammered and their ships sunk, but if the principal of a picket boat screen seemed sound enough 60 years ago, surely then a much better anti aircraft armed warship or two should have done better than ours did. It is just not good enough to say that the Argies had good luck and we bad, since technology and skilled operators should more than cancel out bad luck !
Thanks, guys, for your responses - I shall certainly research the incident in greater detail.
Incidentally, in WW2 my Old Man served as a Middie on a Royal Navy warship that had been especially equipped with every conceivable type of AA measure including rocket parachutes and other Heath Robinson stuff.
On it's maiden voyage to the gunnery range it was attacked by a crack Luftwaffe anti shipping squadron and was sunk, but not before bringing down all of the aircraft in the enemey squadron. The battle continued afterwards between the British in their lifeboats and the Luftwaffe in their rubber dinghies. One old salt even got out of his life boat, swam over to a dinghie full of Germans and attacked with e 3ft. Navu cutlass !
That's the bloody spirit !
BG

 

aziz

Wow!!!

 

Re: Anti-aircraft picket boats.

Which ship and squadron were involved? This has cropped up here before but the details were to be fair equally scanty and I've been unable to find corroboration or further information on it.

 

I've done a bit of searching and asked on another ship centred forum and no-one can come up with anything matching this story. The nearest thing appears to be the story of HMS Patia:

http://www.bobhenneman.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=616

Having checked elsewhere no other online source mentions the sailor taking the dinghy crew prisoner with a sheath knife (Not attacking them with a 3ft Navy Cutlass :roll: )

The only other reasonably detailed reference I've come up with says:

http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/ ... post2.html

I detect an unhealthy degree of embellishment although even if it is the same somewhat padded story, there are a number of important differences:

1) It wasn't Patia's maiden voyage.
2) She was on her way to pick up her Hurricat, not on the way to a gunnery range "...especially equipped with every conceivable type of AA measure...", although she did apparently have some experimental AA gear on board.
3) She was attacked by a lone He111 of a Luftwaffe bombing squadron, rather than an entire elite anti-shipping squadron.
4) There is a report, not corroborated elsewhere, of a sailor capturing survivors by threatening to sink their inflatable, nothing mentions a running battle between survivors in the water involving cutlasses and pistols.

Unless this is a completely different incident and unless anyone can provide more complete details on the incident BG's refering to, I call "Tall Story" on this one.

 

Actually, that should be "Sea Story", rather than "Tall Story".

 

Proposal to start a new category for BG and others of a creative bent- "Fish Stories" - anyone second.

:-?

PS. Did I say new category - oops ! I meant new forum.

 

whatever

I second that Scouse, but upon reflection we could always use the old 'Cod Wars' thread!!!! or is that too deep?
(Oxford Dictionary.... 'COD'....British slang...hoax, nonsense {abbreviation of 'CODSWALLOP'}

 

No comment from relevant parties on here?

I am disappointed.

 

...i never get invited to any of these "relevant parties "and ive been a member in good standing for some time now ..ricky and roel tell me they no longer attend these events as they often end up as wild drunken orgies which have even been featured on " girls gone wild " ..is this true ? and if so why am i being blackballed , is it because im american ? ...its not fair..and simon , i too , am disappointed ...sure ,you invite cossacks and serbs and slovines and anybody in a fur hat and muddy boots ,you got scotsmen , cannucks and anzaks out the wazoo ...cmon guys ,im lottsa fun at parties ..i do this bit with a lampshade on my head , chicks love it!!! ..i promise not to be an ugly american , give me a chance ...pleeeze..

 

OK then, we'll hold a Relevant Party in Majorwoody's honour. The dress code is informal, but in the spirit of the occasion, Lampshade head dress is mandatory so that once suitable amounts of ale have been consumed we may learn Woody's party trick, and just this once no muddy boots.

Hey, maybe we could combine this into one great aftershow party once the movie's premiered! What do you reckon Woody?

 

Shall I leave Christian to book the usual troupe of dancing girls?

 

You might want to suggest he makes it a provisional booking though, just in case the movie fails to materialise, y'know, just in case, not wishing to cast aspertions or be cynical or anything.

Honest.

Just in case.

 

Surely that wouldn't happen?

We could always have the party anyway...

 

...ah look fellas ...ahem ..i know the lampshade thing was my idea and all ...but what if ms zeta-jones-douglas SHOULD actually appear at our little aftershow gathering ...uh ...dont you think ..ah ..wouldnt we all appear to be rather boorish, provincial and well , dare i say ..unsophisticated ? ..in front of all those hollywood celebrities ,moguls and powerbrokers in their black tie ,fancy gown formal attire ..im sorry ,im just thinking out loud here...ill do whatever you guys think is right ..perhaps ...mabey we could lay up a few cases of super chilled sky vodka and use it to keep tiso and his fur hatted uzbek buddies occupied ( and out of sight ) in the kitchen until we know for sure if zeta jones and her jet set high society hipster crowd are for sure coming or not....i mean , if our balkan -tartar -chetnik freinds get liquered up and start hewing one another with woodsmens axes again it will surely scare the piss out of b.g.s high class artsy film people types ..no? ..i mean if some rasputin like bearded head should come bouncing down the carpet (remember the last xmas party ) , again ,,well, im not so sure we can convince THESE people its just movie special effects ...I mean these guys actually make movies ,right ? also i vote we leave all farm animals outside ,at least till we know the score ,guest wise , wink ...well food for thought ,anyway ...peace out , homies ...