How do we define Heroes?

OK, we're all familiar with how History is written by the Winners, but I am prompted to post this on here because of a discussion which is occuring on another board.

Note: The views expressed by I-16Stealth are not mine, nor do I necessarily agree with him.

The two posts are from: http://www.tgplanes.com/Public/snitz/to ... PIC_ID=931 (Che and Ricky may well be familiar with them)

"There's a serious question: can a pilot be considered a hero if he fights for the agressor?

I know that a lot of nazi pilots during the war were "sportsmen", the only aim of them was to claim victories. For example, one of the captured German pilots (his surname was Muller) said that he fights just for receiving good results, not because he hate "bolshevism". Such pilots, I think, can be named only "specialists", not heroes."

And later:

"I will not argue with your position, as it turns to tens of pages full with flood I only add, that till this time I've thought that WWII was started by Germans.

But I'm staying at my own that agressors couldn't be heroes. Ok, perhaps Polish invasion was an agression in Western European's (and Polish, of course) eyes, but Great Patriotic War for USSR was a war of defenders."

So, the question posed is: Can someone fighting for an Aggressor be a hero?

 

Quick google for a definition of hero gives this as the first go:

I think, by that definition, then the answer has to be yes. Just because you're fighting for the "wrong" side in no way precludes courage, nobility or stength (or strength of character). Presumably they believed in their cause, and did their best for it - just like our side.
I know Elvington (Yorkshire Air Museum) used to have RAeS (Royal Aeronautical Society) lectures fairly regularly and one of the "regular" lecturers was Günther Rall, (at least until about 5-6 years ago when I moved out of the area). The lectures (about his career) were always well-filled out audience-wise (with not a few of his erstwhile adversaries).
IIRC a large number of ex-RAF pilots became good friends post-war with their ex-Luftwaffe couterparts (including "he shot me down on such and such a date and I looked up after the war and we've good mates ever since").
I feel there was little doubt in the minds of their enemies at the time that certain of the opposition were "heroic", look at the Red Baron - buried with full military honours etc.
I believe their can be heroes on any and all sides in a war - what an individual's actions are during a war are what make the hero - not the national policy/ political motivation that starts that war.

 

Agreed 100% and very eloquently put.

 

A hero is everyone, who

- fight for his country in a war and risk his life.

- is not involved in war crimes

- do a great job during the war.


Regards,
Che.

 

That's one way of looking at it -everyone who puts his life on the line is a hero, just ordinary blokes doing a nasty job, usually with no complaints (except weather, food, ruperts ) and then coming home again (or not, sadly) and carrying on with life.
But I assumed the question meant hero in the traditional sense - extraordinary valour.

 

The question: 'How do we define a hero?'

The answer: 'david'


I thank you.

 

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:smok: :roll:

 

What, that dude from the Bible, with the sling?

A hero is someone who deserves and recieves respect for his actions. Hence there are many different types of heroes, and the ones we're talking about here are national military heroes. I think there are definitely also heroes in civilian life, or heroes who don't necessarily fight for "their country" or anything. Also, this means that there can definitely be heroes on the "wrong" side in war as long as the actions of the persons in question demand respect.

 

As usual, I tend to agree with Roel.

 

Just because he´s the admin

 

No, because he is objective and usually right.

 

Well Roel is my hero....<swoon>!!!!













:lol:

 

Boy I wish she hadn't attached that laughing smiley right at the end.

 

She???? I have a name....grrrrr!!

I have to make it look like I'm joking otherwise Ricky might get jealous!!!

 

Well, ROXY, I was here first.

 

Tsk tsk. The Toastinator (where have you been, man - not seen you around for while) asks a question that has serious ethical and moral dimensions and you three turn the thread into a giggling party at the back of the classroom. Tut, extra homework

 

Ah but Ricky talks to me more than you do, you just tell me off!




I love it when a man is forceful with me!

 

Took a brief break, but I'm more or less back now (Work situation pending...), I have to admit I was hoping for something useful I could take back to I-16Stealth on the other Forum...

 

Well, there have been some useful definitions on here. I dare say my own post was useful, defining "hero" as something very abstract and universal; this implies that heroes can exist within any group, including agressors in war.