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I.D. a crew from the 268th squadron

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by Erich, Jan 9, 2003.

  1. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Stevin:

    What I have from Girbig's book is that:

    9 killed and 2 captured of NJG 1.......maybe 3 Ju 88's ?/ 2 Ju 88G-6 and 1 Ju 88G-1. NJG 101, 1 mia which actually was wounded from 6./NJG 101. I believe that this G-1 was the a/c that was off target leading JG 6 a/c, and the result the Junkers was hit by AA and the whole stream of Junkers and 109's/Fw's were lost......
    One Ju 88G-6 D5+MM, 3 killed, 1 captured of NJG 3.

    will look for more this afternoon from another source. without a doubt John/Ron's book will cover the details in depth.

    Thanks for the 1-1-45 materials.....excellent !

    I'll send you another private soon.

    E
     
  2. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    You're not going to enjoy this......I have a number of German nf's lost on this date, and the losses book does not break it up specificaly to bodenplatte or just night actions against RAF bombers. There were two Junkers lost of 5. and 6th./NJG 101. The 5th staffel machine smashed into a hill and all three crewmen were killed. The 6th staffel machine was shot down by Allied ? AA and the three crewmen were wounded. NJG 101 was leading JG 4 ? by my notes, which makes it quite apparent that this whole unit and the Junkers did not have a clue where they were going.
    I have a total of 6 a/c, all Junkers 88's of NJG 3 lost over Belgium but does not say if this is a result of Bodenplatte. 3./NJG 4 Ju 88G-1 all three crewmen dead from the Bodenplatte escapade. NJG 4 led whom ? ......gag ! this is confusing me even more :eek:

    E
     
  3. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Yes I am! ;)

    OK, will sent you the rest of 1-1-45 material from the book as it has some of that kind of info too.

    BTW, I haven't heard you yet about the Me262's of KG(J)51! Or even the Ar-234's of E.St/KG76....JG104 and SG4...But I am sure you are keeping that for later, just to slowly increase the :confused: , :D :D :D

    Anyways, will translate the rest of what I have...
     
  4. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Stevin I am not sure if I want to even post about them. Don't have enough materials for one thing, and the other being that the jet units did not fly in sufficient numbers. SG 4 Kommodore was KIA ? on the date which was a huge blow to the ground attack wing. I'll stick with the NF pathfinders and try and figure who led whom. What is clear in my mind is that in-expereienced crews led the fighter a/c formations with the result of at least 1 if not 2 fighter wings were completely lost and suffered terrible losses as the result, attacking minor or even almost empty bases.

    E send 1-1-45 text when you can ! thumbs up !!
     
  5. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    JG3 lost two Staffelkaptans: those of 10 and 12 staffel. No names are given.

    No detailed info on any other German losses.
     
  6. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Stevin thanks anyway. This is pretty consistant with the whole book is it not ? and just covering the events in Holland and Belgium, or does it include missions in Germany too ?

    hey almsot to 1000 my friend ! good job S !! ;)

    E
     
  7. redcoat

    redcoat Ace

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    The book I've got lists the fighter pilot casulties suffered by the Germans in this operation.

    The Staffelkaptan for Staffel 10 JG3 is listed as,
    Ltn Hans Jung, flying a BF 109G-14, A/C no 464162,(Black 3). It has no location for his loss, it just lists him as Killed

    The only casualty listed for 12 Staffel JG3 is Oblt Eberhard Graf von Treuberg, flying a Bf 109G-14 A/C no 464297( Yellow 6).
    It also has no location for his loss, it just lists him as MIA (Interestingly it does not list him as a Staffelkaptan)
     
  8. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Hi Redcoat,

    Many thanks for that! Good stuff. I don't have much on JG3....Mayby Eric Mombeek's book says more on that.

    Redcoat, does your book mention SG4 and any of the NJG or KG units?
     
  9. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    III./JG 3 only supplied 15 Bf 109 G's. This is the equivalent to a full staffel ! They left Lippspringe at 08.25 uhr. flying in either kette or schwarm fashion. Towards Lippstadt which they met up with stab and the rest of the guppen and also the Me 262 gruppe I./KG 51. III./JG 3's first loss was around Helmond. the staffelführer 10./JG 3 Lt. Hans-Ulrich Jung was hit by light flak which caused his a/c to burst into flame and he slammed into the ground killed. Obfhr. Uwe Neumann of 11./JG 3 shot down by Heeze 5km southwest of Eindhoven by flak and his a/c went down along with him.....KIA. At 09.20 uhr the gruppe was then involved with the rest of JG 3 in ground attack. Staffelführer Lt. Oscar Zimmermann of 9./JG 3 was quite busy as he tackled two Typhoons and a Tempest in aerial combat. Staffelkapitän 12./JG 3 Oblt. Eberhard Fischler Graf von Treuberg was shot down by the flak defences at the airfield of Eindhoven, and Treuberg crashed to his death in his machine.....
    The British reported 43 RAF a/c destroyed and a further 60 heavily damaged. JG 3 claimed through all the chaos and smoke 116 RAF a/c destroyed on the ground .....total III./JG 3 losses were 3 killed, 2 wounded.

    this from the III./JG 3 buch bei Dr. Jochen Prien.

    E
     
  10. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    guys :

    Wanted to add a bit more. III./JG 3 was so decimated during the Normandy battles that it had a real hard time catching up with experienced pilots. Staffel members were moved from one staffel to another to fill ranks. No problem with a/c just personell.
    Langer who led the over all mission from III. gruppes standpoint called it an utter failure from the start and did not wish to take part or his men to take part in the action but had to do his duty or be courtmartialed.

    Redcoat, I second the mention by Stevin; would love to find out if your book mentions the Junkers 88G's that took part and led which gruppen and of course casualties amonst them as well.

    E
     
  11. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    The Dr. Prien volumes....Of course! Have only his Geschichte Des Jagdgeschwaders 53 Teil 3.

    Also mentions Bodenplatte, pg. 1475 - 1500

    But you got those already...don't you, Erich?

    (My 'to buy - list' just got extended... :( :D )
     
  12. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Ha, ha Stevin the volume you mentioned Teil 3 of JG 53 is on my list. I have the full JG 1/11, JG 27, and Stab/I, III. and IV./JG 3 volumes. No JG 77 or the earlier JG 53 ones and still need to pick up the II./JG 3 one. You know what these cost so it takes a bit of time to save the dosh, but they are the best written so far on the individual gruppen. Have Eric Mombeeks Sturmjäger volumes 1/2 on JG 4 too and a host of other smaller volumes on the units and battles, although there is not much written on the battles themselves...... too much research time I think.

    E
     
  13. redcoat

    redcoat Ace

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    Sorry Stevin, it lists none of the pathfinder units,and has very little on the part they played in the operation. The author has just concentrated on the fighter units which attacked the airfields.
    The book has a number of good first-hand accounts of the attack (mainly British) and has tried to get to the bottom of how many aircraft the allies did lose on this day ( I've read the book and I'm still not sure :confused: [​IMG] )

    [ 23. January 2003, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: redcoat ]
     
  14. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Thanks for that, redcoat! My Dutch book uses a lot of contemporary Allied documents and also focuses mainly from the Allied side. Very interesting and YES! the :confused: only seems to mount. I am eagerly awaiting the Putz/Manhro book. I know they did a lot of research, and I hope theycan take some of the :confused: away. But that is what you get if you try to put infomation from all these sources together like we do here....Research is a meticolous(sp?) business....
     
  15. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    more confusion ? what else is new..... ;) as you said Stevin, research can be tough. What are there now, 4 to 5 books deidcated to the battle and all with varying degrees of lossses and claims plus the first hand accounts and the variations of even those.

    E
     

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