If German Surface Raiders Were Not Held Back.

Do you think it would have made a difference if Hitler had not ordered that all battleships and surface vessels not go out of port to attack the enemy? I personally think so. If the Kreigsmarine could could have used both U-boats and surface raiders together, for example a battleship or cruiser (such as the Admiral Scheer etc) could distract the convoys escorts from a distance, while a U-boat Woflpack slipped in while they were distracted and unleash torpedoes on the convoy. They would have their hands full if a surface vessel was firing upon them, and so they would not have been able to target the U-boats as well, even with radar and Asdic.

Also, just think about it...when The USA entered the war in 1941, 6 U-boats were sent to American shores. Imagine if a battleship had been sent there. A Pocket Battleship on the East Coast would have been able to cause a lot fo trouble with the American forces as disorganised as they were.

 

A panzershiffe would have been dead meat if it tried to operate off the US East coast. Coordination between surface ships and subs was never particularly good. Bismarck isn't going to last vs a couple modern US BBs it's even worse if you throw in a bunch of escorts and a CV or two.

 

It would not have made a difference. The Kriegsmarine was behind in technology, ship classes, numbers and tactics. If Germany was not going to be commited in supporting a navy to rival the Royal Navy, it should not have wasted precious materials in building any of the capital ships. My opinion

 

I believe you are over estimating the quality as well as the quantity of the Kreigsmarine. Especially its long range trans-ocean U-boat numbers pre-1940. The "pocket battleships" (not even battlecruisers), Lutzow (ex.-Deutschland), or Admiral Sheer would be of little aid, and the Graf Spee was lost well before the aborted Operation Seelowe (but they were only 16,000 + tons). Maybe you are thinking of the Scharnhorst, and Gneisenau both about 30,000 tons (but they cannot do the job since they had been damaged in early 1940, and were being repaired from March, 1941 to Feb.,1942). Or maybe it is the Bismarck at 45,000 tons which is the only true battleship in the modern context which the Nazis had by 1941, and it was hunted down and sunk by May of that year on its maiden voyage.

Its sister ship, the Tirpitz was NOT out of the Baltic until 1942, so neither could be of any more help than they were historically, absolutely zilch help, Admiral Scheer was in the dock yard receiving major modifications from February, 1940, until July, 1940, and then on trials in the Baltic until October, 1940. The Lutzow had her rudders and props blown off by a British submarine torpedo in April, 1940, and was subsequently under repair until May, 1941.

The Prinz Eugen could NOT be of any help since it wasn't even commissioned until Aug.,1940, and hadn't passed its sea-trials. Also it was damaged by a mine in early in its career in 1941. Then it was tied up in Brest after the sinking of the Bismarck for repairs, and made that mad dash with the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau in Feb., of 1942. So, maybe you are thinking of the ten destroyers and less than thirty U-boats that the Kriegsmarine had as seaworthy units by mid 1940 through early 1941!

Against that HUGE and imposing sea force of the Nazi Kriegsmarine (giggle), with their little surface fleet and about thirty submarine vessels would have to get through the Royal Navy (in 1940) to even come up against the USN. And the RN could ONLY put up the aging but capable warships; Ramillies, Resolution, Revenge, Royal Sovereign, Repulse, Renown, Queen Elizabeth, Valiant, Warspite, Malaya, Barham, Nelson, Rodney, King George V(end of 1940), Prince of Wales (May ’41), and the of course the Hood, by the time of its demise it was as near to a Battleship as most other craft of its size. Its deck armor was lacking, but due for a refit when she was sunk by the Bismarck.

However the Battlecruisers Repulse and Renown at 32,000 tons, 30 knot speed, and six 15 inch main cannon, were more than a match for most Kreigsmarine surface ships afloat at the time. And let us not forget the RN’s eleven light cruisers, its aircraft carriers, its submarines and its 53 destroyers in the Atlantic (Home) Fleet alone, nor should the Canadian Corvettes (Tribal Class?) be ignored either.

And while it is true that the United States was officially neutral until December 8th of 1941, the U.S. Navy really "entered" World War II on September 5th of 1939 when the CNO, Admiral Harold R. (Betty) Stark, initiated Neutrality Patrol operations in the Caribbean and in the waters 200 miles off the coasts of both North and South America. In the fall of 1939 the USN’s Atlantic Squadron consisted of 3 older but upgraded battleships (Arkansas, New York, and Texas), and after June of 1941 they were joined by the Washington, New Mexico and the Mississippi, the old carrier Ranger was joined by the Wasp in mid-1940 in the Atlantic Fleet.

Then the carrier Yorktown didn’t leave Hampton Roads for the Pacific until the 20th of April 1940 so she would probably still be there if the Kreigsmarine suddenly showed up on our east coast. And the carrier Hornet was added to the Atlantic Fleet in late 1941 and may have stayed put if the Nazis had showed up instead of transferring to the Pacific Fleet in March of 1942 for the Doolittle raid.

The USN's Atlantic Fleet also started out with 12 heavy cruisers, some light cruisers, five land-based patrol wings, and multitude of destroyers. And let’s also remember the hundreds of USCG cutters and such which were afloat and patrolling the US waters inside of the thirty mile range I believe. I don't know how many FDR had sent to Greenland to take over the "iceberg" patrol after Denmark was invaded, but that was a Coast Guard operation.

Then let’s also factor in that the Congress passed the so-called Two-Ocean Navy Bill, which was signed by the FDR on July 19th of 1940. The increase in our naval strength authorized by this Act was 1,325,000 tons of combatant ships; the largest single naval expansion ever authorized by the US of A.

It seems to me that the Kreigsmarine would have lost its surface fleet even faster than it did historically with this proposed "operation".

 

One of the little understood defects of the smaller German ships is they were not designed for the Atlantic. Most were top heavy and when at less than half full of fuel were at high risk in storms. Even when properly ballasted they were slow and handled poorly in high waves and wind.