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Infantry Weapons of WWII

Discussion in 'The Guns Galore Section' started by Mutant Poodle, Apr 25, 2004.

  1. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    I'm tellin' you guys, you can reload an M1 Garand mid clip. All you have to do is manualy pull the lock open. The myth that the M1 Garand cannot be reloaded untill emptied is one of the most terrible rumors ever.
     
  2. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    I like the .45 but the Beretta is according to the tests more reliable and has a much greater magazine capacity. I think that's the reason the Colt was replaced.

    As for modern weapons, I never said they were more powerful, just that they have the tumbler effect built into them, mainly to compensate for the fact that as you say the muzzle energy is weaker.

    The greater volume of fire is actually a bit of a myth in itself since at all but point blank range you are taught to fire single shot, no greater a volume of fire with an M-16 than with an M-1. It's only at distances of less than about 10 metres that you use fully automatic fire.

    Danyel, you appear to have used one, I haven't so I defer to your experience on the Garand, looks like one of those enduring myths that is still taken as true!

    SMGs are certainly useful but except for the Soviets I'm led to believe that they complimented the use of Rifles rather than the other way around. The main problem was that the muzzle energy was pretty low (Much less than a rifle's, and the rounds were generally poorer at retaining their energy over distance), the range around 100 metres maximum and stoppages pretty frequent. However for FIBUA there was certainly no better weapon, except the Assault Rifle.
     
  3. Greg Pitts

    Greg Pitts New Member

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    I have owned both 9mm and .45 ACP and the turn to the 9mm from the .45 was, in my opinion, just plain stupid.

    Nothing beats the .45 ACP in reliability. With a 7/1 magazine it's fine and if you can't stop your enemy in 7 shots, you are already in trouble.

    The .45 ACP is also, contrary to many people stating otherwise, an extremely accurate weapon. I have no problem hitting a man size target at 50 yards.

    Also, the .45 ACP fires a 230 grain bullet compared to the 9mm of 115 grn or 125 grn.

    The .45 ACP is a man stopper. The 9mm is good, but not as good.

    :smok:
     
  4. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    I'm with you Mr. Pitts, the change over to the 9mm was a bit senseless for the military. I agree with the change over in police work as you don't always want to kill a suspect. More often than not, shooting an enemy with the 9mm will just make them angry and even more determined where if he is hit by the .45, he will either drop to the ground or run away hoping he isn't shot again.

    And yes, it is a very accurate gun if the users are trained properly.

    Anyways, there must be something good about the M9 if they continue using it and plan to use it in the future.
     
  5. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    I think the other reason which I forgot when tapping out my reply, was all in the name of NATO standardisation, since everyone else uses 9mm P Pistols, it made sense for the US to adopt it too.

    NATO Standardisation has always however seemed a bit daft to me, since it's never really happened from the moment it was first concieved!

    I'd go even further on the subject of pistols though, I'd say if you ever have to draw your pistol in the first place your already in serious trouble since it means something else has already gone badly wrong...
     
  6. johann phpbb3

    johann phpbb3 New Member

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    Wasn't the .45 originally designed for use aganist Asian armies who would charge in human waves, so that one shot would put a man out of the fight for a long while?

    I have heard stories that if you are hit with the .45 from short range, then you will tossed back a few feet. Is this true?
     
  7. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    The .45 was adopted during the Phillipine insurrection campaign in the early 1900s. The insurrection was led by Islamic Fundamentalists (sound familiar?) who would launch wild-eyed attacks with machetes similar to the Japanese bonzai attacks. The standard issue .38 revolvers with ball ammo all to often didn't stop them until they got to the soldier with the machete. Once they switched to the .45 the problem was solved.

    And yes, the .45 is an excellent manstopper. That big, slow round is awesome against the human body.
     
  8. Greg Pitts

    Greg Pitts New Member

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    You have been watching too many movies! :D

    All this stuff you have heard & seen where people get blown across the room by a gun shot or shotgun is pure horse s___!

    You can drop them on the spot with a well placed round but the theatrics you see are pure bunk.

    One issue why the .45 ACP is so good is that usually it will not penetrate the body completely, therby expending all of its energy within the target. Many high velocity weapons will pass right through both sides of the target, not expending most of their energy in the target.

    It is the shock to the central nervous system that kills. The more shock you deliver to the target, the greater the killing power.

    That is why people that are stabbed with knives do not fall over dead like you see in film. Death from knives and arrows, etc... cause death by hemmoraging, ie... bleeding to death, and it is not instant. That is why you hear on the news about someone being stabbed 30-40 times in a murder. You gotta stab a lot of times to cause enough blood loss quickly to incapacitate the victim.

    The cut to the juggler is one of the most effective as there is tremendous blood loss rapidly and affects the victims use of their volcal chords. Still, death is not immediate.

    Enough gore.

    :smok:
     
  9. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Now I really don't like clowns myself, but going round cutting jugglers does seem slightly cruel. Perhaps a cut to the Jugular would be more like to incapacitate your victim? :lol:
     
  10. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    Perhaps a cut to the Mime? After all, they are much more annoying.... :D
     
  11. Mutant Poodle

    Mutant Poodle New Member

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    However, there is no standard issue weapon with any army in WW2 that compares with the USA M1 30.06. It is an awesome weapon and even today, I do not understand why the US military went from the 30.06 then down to the .308 NATO, and still further down to the 5.56 calibre.

    None of the subsequent cartridges stand up to the capability of the 30.06.

    I agree. The 30 odd six 30.6 is a superior weapon and did make a ROF difference during WWII.
     
  12. Mutant Poodle

    Mutant Poodle New Member

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    Is it possible to get a demo picture, can you do a short 15 sec video demo? Just asking.

    It would be something to watch. :)
     
  13. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Some interesting stuff about pistols, guys! However, you might want to keep the gore down. Thanks!
     
  14. Greg Pitts

    Greg Pitts New Member

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    Phelps is correct. All you do is pull the slide back and eject the clip.

    :smok:
     
  15. mr.bluenote

    mr.bluenote New Member

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    I think the misunderstanding steems from the fact that you cannot reuse, that is reload, the clip itself... The M1 was apparently somewhat difficult to keep clean, especially if sand was around. At least that's what I've heard - a buddy of mine was in the Danish Airforce (Doing guard duty) and they were the last unit in Denmark to have the M1's.

    Anyway, the Americans truely did make some remarkably good weapons in the time around WW2. The .45 Colt pistol (M1911, right?), the Garand M1 rifle, the M1 SMG (it's the Army version of the old M1921 Thompson), the .30 and .50 cal MGs and what have we...

    Actually, I'd say that the 5,56mm NATO standard is a very good caliber. It's precise (Btw, I'm pretty certain that the so called tumbler effect is not evident in the 5.56mm), needs less space than the 7,62mm and other larger bullets, has a very high muzzle velocity, which means that the bullet penetrates, but also delivers a, eh, hydrotermic shock to the water in the targets body and thus do a lot of damage. Is hydrotermic shock btw the expression to use?! I'm not that familiar with English and Americans phrases...

    Best regards!

    - Mr.Bluenote.
     
  16. Greg Pitts

    Greg Pitts New Member

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    Clip or magazine, there is little time to reload it in combat. That is why in both cases, soldiers carry multiples. The standard issue on US GI's had a belt that held 10 clips, each at 8 shots.

    The 5.56 does not tumble. It travels in excess of 3,000 fps. A good "varmit" calibre but light for a man sized target although I have dropped a deer on the spot with one using soft point bullets.

    :smok:
     
  17. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    The main problem I've seen with the 5.56 is this. If it hits bone, it is extremely destructive. At that point it will tumble within the body and cause all sorts of damage Roel wouldn't want me to discuss. If it doesn't hit bone, it doesn't do near the damage the .30 06 or .30 08 round would do.

    Regarding the Thompson, I'd love to have one but very few soldiers I've read about seemed to hold the same opinion. It was rather heavy and not very accurate (barrel climb) unless fired in close proximity to the target.
     
  18. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    What about the MpM1 Grease Gun? It looks like an MP40 copy, made fully out of metal. Was this gun any good?
     
  19. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    From what I've read, the soldiers seemed to really like it. But comparing it to an MP40? That's like saying some Hyundais look like a BMW. The action itself may be comparable (on the surface it appears to be), but the quality of the weapon is more like the Russian SMGs than an MP40.
     
  20. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Well, what I meant is that it is a full-metal folding-stock bar magazine SMG so the similarities on the outside are obvious while on the inside, as someone noted here, all the differences can be found. As i have never seen the inside of an SMG or any other weapon except on pictures, they have none as far as my imagination is concerned so superficial similarities mean a lot.
     

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