Intellegent Theory

Oh yes it is, this is the old "tree falling in the forest" riddle. Facts are facts, whether we take time to find proof or not. Most facts are their own proof, because there's simply no way to prove they are not facts. Things happen without us realizing it, yet they still happen.

This is why there may still actually be a god, or gods, until we prove it to be wrong. If we seek proof of non-existence of gods and instead find a god, then we can't disprove that: the fact is its own proof. If on the other hand we seek proof that there is a god and find none, that is proof as well. It all depends on how exhaustive the latter search is, so those who defend (like me) that gods don't exist at all have a much harder time arguing.

CSP: for a long time in the history of Europe a percentage which could be as high as 15% of the population was sworn to celibacy. Agreed, they were Christians, but that doesn't mean they all went nuts and/or became rapist criminals. Apparently it is possible to live without sex.

 

Ah, but that is a measuarble occurance. A tangible fact. Even a squirrel can note that a tree has fallen...
However there are 'facts' that cannot be called a 'fact' - the existance or non-existance of UFOs. The existance or non-existance of God.
Yes, there is a fact there, they must exist or not exist. But can we say that it is a fact one way or the other?
There is no evidence for the non-existance of aliens (at least, none that I have seen/heard) and some for - though it can be easily dismissed by those with a sceptical frame of mind.
Sounds remarkably like the arguments for the existance of God!

Absolutely. speaking personally I did so for 25 years and would have continued to do so had I not got married.

So most Christians do go nuts & start raping people? :lol:

 

Yeah, visions of God are just Ancient UFO sightings, hadn't you heard.

Actually, some Biblical passages have been explained as visits by aliens being described by the authors, but let's not get into that...

It is true that no living human being can ever prove that there are no gods, and neither can I. But if theoretically we would exhaust every possible way to find a god, without success, then isn't that proof that there is no god? In this way, absence of evidence is eventually evidence of absence.

Though you did develop a peculiar thong obsession it seems...

Actually, that was meant as a joke saying that if you accept becoming a devoted Christian for the rest of your life something must be wrong with you from the outset.

 

But the problem is, as Godel among others demonstrated, there's no way to be sure you've done "every possible" way, there's always another discovery/ method just around the corner.
If we had genuinely used every possible way then the answer, by definition, to the question "is there a God" would also, by definition be "Of course and we are him" There would nothing unknown, nothing that we couldn't do and nothing that we hadn't seen, and presumably we'd be nicer to each other as well :lol:

 

If god dosen't exist , how do you explain ghosts , demonic possecions , miracles , stuff of that nature ?

 

Usually by applying common sense. Most of those things can be discarded by science, such as frog rains and crying statues. And even if they can't be explained, why do they require the existence of a god? It's actually the other way around, god was invented as an answer to your question.

 

they might not need god to excist? maybe beacuse there is no heaven when they die where cud they go. u can believe in haveing a soul but not believe in god and thats wot ghosts r aent they? lost souls

 

I thought they were souls who weren't done in the physical world, or souls who stayed behind to protect family members , stuff of that sort.

I have a question , is the new testement a reformed version of the old testement ?

 

Of course not. The old testament is a collection of ancient legends rewritten to focus on a universal force (the montheistic God). The New testament is sort of a biography of a reformer of the Jewish faith who got a little out of hand.

Ghosts are in fact imaginary. There are many scientific explanations for them.

 

On Scooby Doo it was always a crazy old guy.

 

Are you sure it is right to automatically assume God is responsible for those?
Demonic possessions are easily accounted for by psychological disorders, ie schitzophrenia. Ghosts, well frankly I don't believe in them so I'll leave that one alone. What exactly is a miracle? To me, waking up when I am supposed to every morning is a miracle .

I think religion is the absolute greatest idea come up by mankind, but I believe religion was a way to escape the weird and wonderful things that happen around the world that we can now explain with science. That and to provide a strong moral and ethical code among the human people. That worked wonders didn't it?

 

In a way yes , in a way no , I think that bald chick on Saturday Night Live was partially right , she said religion was the enemy(allthough ripping a picture of the pope was going to far) a majority of histories man made disasters , and wars have had something to do with religion.

 

Shana O'Conner I assume?

Yes, but these wars are not so much caused by religion as they are caused by man's interpretation of religion.

 

That bald chick? THAT BALD CHICK?
You mean, of course, Sinead O'Connor (gorgeous and talented; gotta love Troy), and the Pope-picture-ripping thing was about what Catholicism has done to her country and her life. There are people who have protested in a far worse way, for less and not received half the flak she did for that.
Wars have had a lot to do with religion, or at least interpretaion.
Do you think we could have arrived at ethics and morals without the idea of God? And if not, think of this one:
two tribes (war bands/ extended families) in the very ancient world.
1 group has religion (and thus ethics and morals)
1 group doesn't
Given what you know of human history which group is the most likely to have been wiped out or taken over?
My guess (and it MUST have happened many times in history) is that the ethical group with morals screamed something like "you don't worship God, therefore you are evil, therefore you must die" and got stuck in.
Exit the no-morals, no-ethics group who only wanted to carry on eating berries :lol:

 

religion , non the less.

Discrimination against same sex couples - relgion
descrimination against women-partly because of religion
descrimination against other religions- the crusades , the inquizition , the holocaust , present day discrimination , I think the protestant church of South Africa said blacks were inferior in 1948.

I'm not against religion , actually most of my principles are religious , I'm just pointing out the facts out.

 

Oh of course. Atheism has always been viewed (or atleast for most of human history) as barbaric and inferior. I mean, to think that we are who we are by our own creation....blasphemy!

Being religious and still being able to question it is a great advantage. So much bloodshed has been shed because of man's unquestioning loyalty to religion (mostly Christianity & Islam) and if these people had actually taken the time to compare their acts to the "guidelines" of their religion, they would have made some better choices, IMO.

I too consider myself religious, but I cannot limit myself to a particular religion.

Be it Christianity, Judism, Hinduism, Dharma, Taoism, Zen, or Rastafarinism, the priniciples are all the same: be a good person and your afterlife will be just as good. This is the foundation of religion, and these people/groups who have twisted religion to suit their own needs and wants are only ripping at the heart of religion, making it harder for people to understand it and accept it.

 

Try this, from a guy who believed so much he wrote a book that "proved" Noah's flood happened all over the world

The Sacred Theory of the Earth by Thomas Burnet 1691
My italics, and I think I'll remember this for quoting the next time a hear a pro-religion anti-science pesron have a go at scientific enquiry

 

Ahem. Roel gives the agnostic viewpoint only

The OT is (basically) the History of the Jewish People & their relationship with God.

The NT is (basically) the story of how God decides to reform the religion of his followers by sending his son. (Reform does not mean all change, it means stopping the institutionalisation)

 

And the German church under Hitler preached that Jesus was a German, who wanted to destroy everything that was not German.

I think that Zhukov_2003 said it best:

The abuse of religion in ages past really really pees me off. I'd like to invent a time machine so I can go back and give these people a good slap.

 

That's a motivational matter, it has nothing to do with a supposed superiority. The same happens if you have one side with nationalism and another without it (see the French Revolutionary Wars). This does not make religion such a great invention because you see what happens when both sides use it as a weapon (the Crusades; for nationalism, World War I).

Ethics and moral codes exist whenever someone has the willpower to be something better, with or without reward. Most of the time the reward for being a good person comes in life as well, so there's plenty of non-religious motivation to be a good person. One "secular" moral theory is that of Plato for example.

What I wrote is the part we know for sure, the rest depends on what you wish to believe.