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invasion japan

Discussion in 'Land Warfare in the Pacific' started by Ron, Oct 7, 2000.

  1. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Many Major historians have stated, Invading Japan would of caused immense Allied casualties. The Japanese would of fought till the end Surrendering was not an Option Dieing for their God the Emperor, was.

    Considering the situation dropping the Bombs was a viable option. Also I always thought Japan could of been surrounded and strategically Destroy the Japanese War Machine. The Problem Lies since the European and Russian war was over, there was a need to quickly end the Pacific war.
     
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    When we got to this part I put the following three statement up for the class.

    "The Atomic Bomb was used solely to end the war."

    "The Atomic Bomb was used solely to impress the Russians."

    "The Atomic Bomb was used solely to test the technology on a population center."

    Of course, it was not used solely for any one purpose. The fun part comes in when people try to assign percentages to those three options, and a few others.
     
  3. syscom3

    syscom3 Member

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    The American public and the soldiers still fighting the war wanted it over as soon as possible.
     
  4. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Affirmative. I'm on October 1943, but I've already imaged June and July 1945 in Vital Speeches of the Day, and the argument is raging over how to end the war, but they're unanimous in wanting it ended PDQ.
     
  5. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    "The Atomic Bomb was used solely to impress the Russians." I heard Some Russians even wet their pants :D
    once the Intel reports came in on the destruction, the Bombs caused. The Russians I believe took many of
    the captured German Scientist plus sent Agents to see if they could get plans++once seeing the destructive power,
    A must have Toy if you want to be a World Super Power.

    The Soviet Atomic Bomb: 1939-1949
    The Soviet Nuclear Weapons Program


    Japan Developed Atom Bomb;
    Russia Grabbed Scientists
    Copyright 1946 by the Atlanta Constitution and David Snell.

    1946 Atlanta Constitution Atom Bomb Articles



    "The Atomic Bomb was used solely to test the technology on a population center."
    If that's the Case which that argument holds water that would be a War Crime?

    "The Atomic Bomb was used solely to end the war."
    Well that was one of It's purposes on The German's Or Japanese which ever came first
    but due to bad luck of having the Germans surrender,LOL the Japanese became the target as
    the justification in using such a weapon on Civilians, therefore back to the third statement.
     
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Spaniard, not of the statement are completely true. The term "monocausality" (having only one cause) comes into play here. The bomb was NOT dropped for just one reason, but various parties claim it was, or discount the other reasons as "relatively minor reasons", primarily to push their own agenda in regard to the matter. My point in doing this in class was to make the students think on a larger scale. Many students have only read one book on a topic, and that is usually the text book. So I wanted them to see that all causes have to be considered and you can never be certain about how important one of those causes is without some pretty awesome evidence.
     
    brndirt1 likes this.
  7. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    That's what I was trying to imply also, there was more then one reason to drop the bomb not just one main reason as many believe, Mr Professoree Pointer :D thats the problem that some only look at the main picture and forget the details, of other factors even if minor will take place in order to establish the bigger picture. Showed the Russians Look at the Big Toy the US has and We will use it if need be, as we used it already in Japan. I know that thought went through many High Ranking Russion Party Officals.

    I'm sure theres Top Secret documents hidden where they can't ever be found to Support the theories that many have discussed for years on the Dropping of the Two Bombs.
     
  8. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Yes I've stated that.
     
  9. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The Truman and Roosevelt Libraries have most of the documents. I've read Stimson's diaries in regard to targeting.

    Truman Library: The Decision to Drop the Atomic Bomb Online Research File
     
  10. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    I'll have to take a Close Look at these Archive documentation thanks for the link I've already read a few Documents on this.

    I'm Sure theres other Documents not Yet seen, and probably forgotten or that they ever existed, that's why digging through the archive is so important.

    Like you stated keeping the Program alive and show It's success was Vital for some, which is true from what I read many moons ago, Why ?? Because they got Government Support and $$$$$$s++ or for Personal agendas Ok More $$$$$$$$$$ ;) :D.
     
  11. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Why are you SURE there are other Documents not Yet seen?
    I don't remember saying that.
     
  12. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    You stated: primarily to push their own agenda in regard to the matter.

    So Scientists, people involved with the Bomb Program, Politicians+++ had an agenda for keeping the program alive and that it continued for years to come, For the security of the Nation, many Stated. LOL

    Because theirs Canadian Top Secret Reports that have been discovered as the infamous Report # 150 that supposedly never existed, was ordered destroyed a few times and survived to finally have the truth revealed and so many other Documents Like in the US when so many Secret documents where found from WWII in 2000 and released to the US Public, Well Not All??

    I read that in a few Articles Can't remember but I'm sure I'll fined some Info if I google.

    All I'm saying is that More info is out there that has not been realised or Filed in the wrong place and misplaced and probably will be discovered with time.
     
  13. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    And you decide what those agenda were. I did not so state.
    I'm leery of "recently discovered documents", like the one that revealed the existence of the Majestic 12, for example.
     
  14. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Well Their Agenda would be how's involved, "So to me" Military High ranking Officers, The Scientists, People involved with the program, Politicians. And if money as power wasn't a factor also keeping the program alive. To test it as show concrete results of the devastation this weapon Caused was Vital.

    If there documents found in National Archive warehouse that have been gathering Dust for 65+ years a good investigation is required to see if the documents are valid. One doesn't fined documentation and immediately considers the information provided is Fact. Do yo know that a few CDN Documents have been falsified Like Report # 168++++ As a good want to be Armchair Historian I know better then That,;):D
    .
     
  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Please, take full credit for what you say, and leave me to decide what I've said. Deal?
    [/QUOTE]
    If there documents found in National Archive warehouse that have been gathering Dust for 65+ years a good investigation is required to see if the documents are valid. One doesn't fined documentation and immediately considers the information provided is Fact. Do yo know that a few CDN Documents have been falsified Like Report # 168++++ As a good want to be Armchair Historian I know better then That,;):D
    .[/QUOTE]
    The MJ-12 document was found in the National Archives. Very surprising document, "proved" that we were hiding UFOs. The fact that it was planted there still hasn't sunk in for some people.

    No document exists in a vacuum, so even if we "find" some amazing documents, we have to find that it is genuine and the best way to do that is to find out that it fits into the context of the time.
     
  16. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    [/QUOTE]The MJ-12 document was found in the National Archives. Very surprising document, "proved" that we were hiding UFOs. The fact that it was planted there still hasn't sunk in for some people.

    No document exists in a vacuum, so even if we "find" some amazing documents, we have to find that it is genuine and the best way to do that is to find out that it fits into the context of the time.[/QUOTE]

    Wasn't there a flap over in Great Britain recently about the same sort of thing showing up? Somebody had planted documents in their National Archive, and then "found them" and used the "new" forgotten data to support his own book? I seem to recall something like that going on a few years ago.
     
  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The MJ-12 document was found in the National Archives. Very surprising document, "proved" that we were hiding UFOs. The fact that it was planted there still hasn't sunk in for some people.

    No document exists in a vacuum, so even if we "find" some amazing documents, we have to find that it is genuine and the best way to do that is to find out that it fits into the context of the time.[/QUOTE]

    Wasn't there a flap over in Great Britain recently about the same sort of thing showing up? Somebody had planted documents in their National Archive, and then "found them" and used the "new" forgotten data to support his own book? I seem to recall something like that going on a few years ago.[/QUOTE]
    I vaguely recall such. It adds panache to a document to be "recently discovered", you can claim info nobody else has. The problem is, serious researchers don't publish "dramatically revealed" documents. They speak with other researchers and seek verification of the information. Then when they do publish, the community will take them seriously.
     
  18. Victor Gomez

    Victor Gomez Ace

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    Note: About the dropping of the Bomb and the implication of war crimes. For the development of the Bomb there was a man placed in charge of the legal implications during the development of the bomb. This is a New Mexico Historical fact. At New Mexico Highlands University there was later, a professor teaching Government and American Constitution who was the legal person that served during the development of the bomb at Los Alamos in overseeing the legal implications. There was little controversy involved in its creation for him. He is a voice that one may hear or quote who actually viewed the tests at White Sands so he saw its explosion first hand. He was my professor and his name was Ralph Carlisle Smith. He eventually became president of the university. His time at Los Alamos was so educational for his students. I am thankful for his views and instructions about so many questions. Certainly war can be considered criminal in its technique but talk to some victims of the Japanese of which our state holds a dis-proportionate share, as many at Bataan were New Mexico troops. Many New Mexico people are much more understanding of why the bomb was badly needed. Bataan veterans suffer to this day with injuries and ailments caused by their torture and starvation during that period. How can we weigh these things against each other........it is senseless as war is senseless, but we may have to engage in it anyway. If you put so much thought in these matters put a little more in what we can do to prevent war. I read some where that there was a lot of speculation about bombs and war around Einstein's work and efforts and he was often asked many questions about use of the bomb in WWIII. He finally developed a patent answer that he did not know how WWIII would be fought but WWIV would be fought with sticks and stones. I do not remember it verbatim so it is something others can look up and find.
     
  19. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    Say there OpanaPointer, I looked around and found the story on the UK's National Archive flap. It almost exactly two years ago that happened, or rather when it was exposed.

    They were the secret intelligence files that turned second world war history on its head with "revelations" of British collaboration with the Nazis.

    British agents used the royal family to deceive the Nazis into expecting a pro-German putsch. The Duke of Windsor leaked secrets to help Hitler. And, most sensationally of all, SS chief Heinrich Himmler was murdered by secret agents on Winston Churchill's orders.

    The elaborate claims, contained in three separate books by the historian Martin Allen and based on previously unseen documents, read like the stuff of spy fiction. As it turned out, they were.

    Details of an investigation by the National Archives into how forged documents came to be planted in their files have uncovered the full extent of deception. Officials discovered 29 faked documents, planted in 12 separate files at some point between 2000 and 2005, which were used to underpin Allen's allegations

    See:

    The 29 fakes behind a rewriting of history | UK news | The Guardian

     
  20. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    There's other articles on this, Like I stated Still many Archive Top Secret or Secret++ Documents that have been altered or Misplaced and we Will have to rewrite history as documents are discovered and shed more Light on WWII.

    Rewriting History in Great Britain | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine
     

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