Israels Actions

Israel has begun an offence into southern lebanon, in response to continued hezbollah and hamas attacks, and the capture of 3 israeli soldiers.

Do you agree with israels actions so far ?

I totally agree. These militants continue to attack Israel with bombers, and rockets , and they have also kidnapped 3 soldiers, despite Israels attempts to have peace, including: general peace talks ,and a military and civilian withdrawal from Gaza.

I think Israel has had enough of this bullshit , and there taking action, and showing these people that they've had enough , and that in the future, their going to make these militants pay dearly for their continued aggression.

 

I think Israel is justified in their actions.

 

Although a lot of the media here are condemning Israel for a "disproportionate response", IMHO they are justified in their actions. Their sovreign territory (not disputed lands) has been repeatedly attacked, their civilian population and military have suffered casualties.

In both cases the groups admitting responsibility have links with the government (they are the government in Gaza). Since the governments have not dealt with the situation themselves, AFAIK raelis have the rught under the UN charter to take action in self defence.

Widening the issue, and opening this topic up to all conspiracy theorists here, does this seem like the start of a major attempt to overstretch Western forces around the world?
We have "tense" situations vis a vis:
North Korea
Afghanistan
Iran
Syria / Lebanon
India / Pakistan (a potential crisis after the bombings)
Add to that the Iraq situation. IIRC the US has the resources for one major and one minor conflict at a time. Other countries e.g. the UK are struggling with their present commitments.

Remember, you are only paraniod if noone is out to get you!


Tom[/list]

 

go israel.
do i need to be more specific?

you can't talk with extremists. it's their way or the highway. and, they started to fire those rockets. if i fire a rocket at somebody, i don't need to wine later that they are coming after me. Hezbollah and Hamas get what they deserve and it was about bloody time that they get it.

 

I don't agree with their actions, they went too far. If they were good soldiers they woulda fought to the death and I dont beleive that killing 100s of innoncent civilians in order to try to get back a couple of their soldiers. Oh wait thats kinda what the nazis did wasnt it? 100 civilians executed in Warsaw for each soldier who was killed (deffered according to commander I think Heydrich suggested 10). :kill: :kill: :kill: :kill: :kill: :kill: :kill: :kill: :kill: :kill:
Wait is their plan was to piss me off I guess they are succesful I think Lebanon should invade Isreal. Don't see anything wrong except the Lebaneese forces are of poorer quality and equipment. But that didnt always stop the underdog from winning.
I hope someone invades Isreal making me pay 10 cent per litre of gas because they wanna cry about something.

 

So only bad soldiers get captured then? :roll:

It is also worth mentioning that the Israelis are not "Executing" civilians, they are being killed in military operations true, whether the deaths are preventable is open to debate, but they are not carrying out officially sanctioned executions like the SS did.

 

I kept that in? I thought i deleted that before posting....

 

and how innocent are those civilians. every time that i watch the news and see images of palastine, i see hundreds of people carryng machine guns, bazooka's or explosives and i get the impression that they are all militia
Hamas is always crying to the west that they don't have the mony to buy food or get a decent economy and so on and so on.... but they do have the money to buy al those wapons and arm everybody in palestine.

BTW: The Nazi's killed civilians at random that means armed or unarmed, Isreal is shooting the Hezbollah, they carry wapons and point those weapons to the isrealis. and yes, innocent people die with bombarments, they sometimes miss but you don't hear about the woundend and the dead isrealis who got killed from palestine granedes and Hezbollian missles. don't forget, when it came on killing innocent civilians that Hezbollah and Hamas started that with terrorist actions and shooting missles.

 

Interesting responses. I'm not with Israel on this one. They way overected (as usual). I don't support recent Palestinian and Hezbolah activities either. I'm of opinion that every action by both sides has to be viewed by cirumstances in which they happen. And Israel is not innocent in thi latest eruption of violence.

About captured Israeli soldiers. In normal wars (and not so normal wars - like Bosnia and Croatia) exhange of prisoners is normal. So how many Palestinian prisoners does Israel have in their prisons? Three soldiers were captured so what. They have a war since they occupied west bank and Gaza and such things happen in war.

That goes for both sides. Israel is periodicaly bombing Lebanon (and Syria) since they pulled out of that unfortunate country (after thorougly destroying it in the 80's). So if you bomb someone don't whine later if that someone fires a katyusha back at you.

Well tell this to the families of those who were killed.
The ugliest expression i heard in last 15 or so years is colateral damage. That ugly expression covers some nasty things. "Oh we unfortunatly killed some civilians in _____ city. That was not on purpose it was just cillateral damage, we targeted military _______ (insert chosen target) with couple of 2000pounders. Civilians shouldn't be there."
Right Hezbolah used Beirut international airport for launching katyusha rockets (interesting rockets that need runway). Yeah right. If you are not familiar with Geneva convention wanton killing or targeting civilians is a war crime. And before anyone starts with:"They are targeting Hezbolah and Hamas" they should at least check what Israelis are hitting. Either they are targeting civilian infrastructure or their pilots have realy realy terrible eyesight.
In any other conflict this bombings would be considered as casus belli (couse for war). It is interesting to watch US actions in UN security counsel.
In Gaza Israelis are targeting exclusivly civilian infrastucture in classical terror bombing campaign (like power plants, water pumps, bridges, civilian houses...).

Interesting in bringing up UN charter. So when will Israel obey UN security counsell resolution ordering them not to build new settlements and removing existing ones from occupied territories ( i belive that one is around 50 years old).

Did Israel talk with Hamas? First time i hear about it. As far as i can remember they did not want to talk to them even after they won the election (which were pushed by US).
Israel pull out of Gaza was not complete. Israel mentained hermeticaly closed border with Egypt and Israel and repetedly fired on Palestinian fishing boats of coast. They still mentain Gaza as more or less large concentration camp.

 

I don't think they've overreacted. I think their just trying to take out the shitbags who keep attacking them and killing their citizens. I think that the israelis think that there is no dealing with these people, and that they will keep attacking , so , I think they've just decided to get rid of them. I think its also a warning to any other groups who think about attacking Israel.

sorry bout all the "I thinks" lol

 

But CSP what was the first thing Isreal did as a nation? Invade its neighbours that sets a bad blood from the begining and will lead to further hate and war as we see today.

I completely agree with TISO.

Bombing Lebanon will only anger the Middle East and thats what Isreal has been doing since it was created.

 

kind of overlooks the fact that Israel had to invade it's neighbors to create the state of Israel.

Looks like a real no-winner. If Israel doesn't react Arabs preen about their power and Israeli fear of them and go on knocking off a couple a day. If Israel does react it angers the middle east and destroys what little support they have.

Has anyone been following the debate in the US on the adverse effects of the Israel lobby?
http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/w ... /RWP06-011

 

Oh , that must of been after the arab nations attacked israel , and the palestinians joined in and helped them. Isreal took no land unprovoked. The land they took was bought , or taken after being attacked.

 

It's funny how you draw parallels to modern governments and leaders to Nazi Germany all the time. Israel is not killing 100 Lebanese for every one of theirs. Their campaign is of a vastly different nature then the Nazis. They wanted Lebensraum, the annihilation of inferior races, et cetere ... Israel is reacting to repeated attacks on their own soil. Do you register a difference there, Gunter?

Furthermore:

You don't know the situation and state in which those soldiers were captured, and you therefore you are not qualified to conclusively judge their quality as soldiers because of this single event.

Israel has been fighting for its existance since the nation was born in '48. I can understand that they are sick of it. I hope they give the Hezbollah a good arse-kicking.

Go Israel!

 

This is not a conventional war, this is the war on terror. Rule Number One is, you don't negotiate with the bastards on ANYTHING.

 

Actually Panzerman they also killed some North Americans at least 2-4 Canadians woulding another 6. Right Lebaneese only my arse it is.

Plus coming from a guy who claims the guys at guantanimo killed civilians and are terrorists and keeping them locked up without trial is jsut fine and dandy evan when the supreme court ruled against it. I must take your comment as a compliment.

 

Just a warning word - some of you obviously have very passionate views either way on this debate, please do not let your passion get in the way of your politeness...

 

And now a non-moderator post...


The basic summary seems to be this:

Israel was created in 1948, and was immeditely invaded by every nation that shared a border with it. Over the years it has had several major wars (some it started, some it did not, but each war could potentially have seen Israel eliminated) and near-continuous terrorism. Shells, rockets etc come over the borders fairly regularly. And Israel tends to react to these. Shells, bombs, even soldiers go back over those borders in retaliation.

The recent events - Israel has a track record of stepping up reactions in cases like this. The message they send is basically "don't screw about with us or our people, or we will come over there and screw you".


I wonder why Hamas have allowed this. Are they hoping to spark a new war? Are they hoping to turn world opinion so much against Israel that the UN revokes its status as a nation? Or are they just unable to adequately police their own people?

- uh, they are doing this one. It caused a big stir both in Israel and abroad. The Israeli army had to be sent in to get the settlers to leave.

Or... a classic 'war against another nation' campaign.

 

Israel pull out of Gaza was not complete. Israel mentained hermeticaly closed border with Egypt and Israel and repetedly fired on Palestinian fishing boats of coast. They still mentain Gaza as more or less large concentration camp.

just because it looks like a fishing boat doesn't mean it is safe.

That goes for both sides. Israel is periodicaly bombing Lebanon (and Syria) since they pulled out of that unfortunate country (after thorougly destroying it in the 80's). So if you bomb someone don't whine later if that someone fires a katyusha back at you.

I think you are forgetting the reason for Israeli Artillery Bombardments. and oh yeah, sorry for outdated news on your place, cause if they are saying Israel is bombing Syria and Lebanon periodically before this agression, then you are late by decades.

Right Hezbolah used Beirut international airport for launching katyusha rockets (interesting rockets that need runway). Yeah right. If you are not familiar with Geneva convention wanton killing or targeting civilians is a war crime. And before anyone starts with:"They are targeting Hezbolah and Hamas" they should at least check what Israelis are hitting. Either they are targeting civilian infrastructure or their pilots have realy realy terrible eyesight.
In any other conflict this bombings would be considered as casus belli (couse for war). It is interesting to watch US actions in UN security counsel.
In Gaza Israelis are targeting exclusivly civilian infrastucture in classical terror bombing campaign (like power plants, water pumps, bridges, civilian houses...).

That airport can be used to deliver supplies to Hezbollah from it's supporters. Beirut airport has been used to deliver hundreds of millions of dollars worth of supplies to Hezbollah before, so that's pretty much a reason.

As for other targets, there is a thing called in war, called strategic bombing, used to cripple the enemy. Besides, they are bombing hezbollah ridden towns, full of supporters, they already warned the people to leave (which is sad and ironic after bombing bridges). Civilian deaths bring nothing good, but is also inevitable in an airtrikes this numerous, so it's pretty much a given that they are not targetting civilians or civilian houses.

 

or, could this be a way to get iran? (can't help it, i just need to see conspiracies eveywhere )
Hezbollah is Sjiïtic (hope that that is the name/ anyway, not Soenetic). Syria and Iran are also sjiitic countries and who support the Hezbollah? yep, Syria and Iran and didn't Bush called these countries a part of the Axis of evil?

so, Isreal is attack the Hezbollah, if they hit them hard enough, Syria and Iran might be sending some help (weapons? men? money?) or even declare war against Isreal. no doubt that the US is going to jump in (together with NATO? the UK? anybody?) and help Isreal. with forces in Iraq and Afganistan they are able to attack Iran on two fronts and kick the ayatollahs out of there (a wet dream for a couple American generals and politicians if you ask me).
so, if this thing is escalating even further (and Iran is already threathning Israel, not so good), we might get a ware that is gong to be fought in Iran and that Libanon is just a diversion to get things started. and i things doesn't get started then at least you got a couple hundred Hezbollah members KIA.