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Italian Military

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by Mito, Sep 20, 2000.

  1. Mito

    Mito Member

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    From the little I've read about Italy's military participation in WWI, I can state that it was a fiasco.

    Hitler was also cleaning up Mussolini's mess.
     
  2. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I don't see a question here
     
  3. Marcus Wendel

    Marcus Wendel Member

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    > From the little I've read about Italy's
    > military participation in WWI, I can state
    > that it was a fiasco.

    Considering the equipment, training and commanders of the Italian armed forces I personaly think that they (at least most of them) did a good job.

    If I may quote Rommel:
    "The Italian soldier is disciplined, sober, an excellent worker and an example to the Germans in preparing dug-in positions. If attacked he reacts well. He lacks, however, a spirit of attack and, above all, proper training.
    ...
    The lack of adequate means of supply and service, and the insufficient number of motor vehicles and tanks, is such that during some movements Italian sections arrived at the posts incomplete."


    /Marcus
    Third Reich Factbook http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/
     
  4. Marcus Wendel

    Marcus Wendel Member

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  5. Mito

    Mito Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rommel:
    I don't see a question here<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It was a thought I wrote down. By the way, when will I be promoted?
     
  6. Mito

    Mito Member

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    Marcus,

    Interesting are Rommel's comments. Very good.

    I read a book called "Hitler's War" in which it describes the period in which the Italians were struggling for almost 3 months in the Balkans trying to defeat the Greek army. The Italians were about to be defeated. Then Hitler sent some Panzer divisions and the next day the Greek army commander surrendered!
     
  7. Marcus Wendel

    Marcus Wendel Member

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    > I read a book called "Hitler's War" in
    > which it describes the period in which the
    > Italians were struggling for almost 3
    > months in the Balkans trying to defeat the
    > Greek army. The Italians were about to be
    > defeated. Then Hitler sent some Panzer
    > divisions and the next day the Greek army
    > commander surrendered!

    The Germans fought the Greek for several weeks and lost over 5.000 men (compared to 500 in the invasion of Yugoslavia), so it was hardly over in one day.
    While the Italians were indeed being beaten back by the Greek forces (though I'm not sure as to wether they "were about to be defeated"), that is hardly enough to label the entire Italian contribution to the axis side in WW2 as a "fiasco".

    Marcus
    Third Reich Factbook http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/
     
  8. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    I have to agree with Marcus on this one. The Italians were being beaten back by the Greeks, indeed, but they werent 'about to be defeated.' The German Panzers helped turn the tide in greece, as they did in North Africa.

    The Italians in Africa were being pushed back, like in Greece, but along came Rommel, a daredevil, with his panzers and other equipment. They managed to regain lost ground and attacked into Egypt, as far as El Alamein. You have to take into account that the Italians were usually underequipped with out of sate weapons. True, they are great fighters, but they lacked some of that fighting spirit the Germans had.

    The Germans were fighting for a cause - to annihilate the Jews. Remember, that throughout history the Jews have been blamed for causing the black plague, killing jesus christ, and for bringing trouble to everywhere. Hitler just pointed a finger at them, laying the blame of a bad economy etc on them. SO the Germans were fighting for a cause. The Italians, on the other hand, were fighting because the Duce wanted them to. The Duce entered the war on the Germans side, but only after the fall of France. Most of the Italians didnt believe in this 'Roman Empire' the Duce wanted to create, so they lacked that extra desperation and adrenaline that the Germans had when under attack. They saw no point in risking their lives for a cause they didnt believe in.


    Mussolini
     
  9. Marcus Wendel

    Marcus Wendel Member

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    > The Germans were fighting for a cause - to
    > annihilate the Jews.

    The regular German soldiers were hardly fighting to "annihilate the Jews"!
    If you are thinking about Hitler's reasons for starting the war, the main reason was "Lebensraum" (ie more land for the Germans).

    /Marcus
    Third Reich Factbook http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/
     
  10. Mito

    Mito Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mussolini:
    The Germans were fighting for a cause - to annihilate the Jews. Remember, that throughout history the Jews have been blamed for causing the black plague, killing jesus christ, and for bringing trouble to everywhere.

    Mussolini
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The Germans were fighting for survival, against Russian intentions. The Bolsheviks' political agenda was very clear: Bolshevization of the entire world.

    Die WeltJudeBolshevismus
     
  11. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    What i meant to say was that annihilating the Jews was part of their overall plan. In a sense, they could unleash their 'anger' on the Jews. The SS Units were not only fighting the war, but were also abusing and killing the Jews.

    The Germans were not defending against the Russians, it was the Germans who made the initial attack against Russia because Stalin (he was ruling at the time, right?) wasnt really doing anything and Hitler saw them as a potential threat against them as Japan was attacking communist China.

    Mussolini
     
  12. Michael Dorosh

    Michael Dorosh Member

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    My impression is that while Italian soldiers did fight courageously, their officers were a mixed bag, and their equipment was either ancient or awful. Their machineguns had to be heavily oiled to work properly (a drawback in the desert, since sand would stick to the oil and jam the weapon), and their tanks were tiny little things compared to a Matilda or Sherman.

    Rommel may have admired common Italian soldiers, but he loathed their generals - don't forget he fought against the Italians in the First World War.
     
  13. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    That's information about Italian soldiers I'm aware of as well. When they were well equipped and lead, the Italian soldiers performed very well, and possessed that "spirit of attack" that Rommel was so fond of.

    As for why he Germans soldiers fought, it was because they were called to do so. I don't believe that every German individually fought because they hated Jews or Bolsheviks. The German soldier fought tenaciously against all opponents, including British and Americans. They fought for the same reasons that any soldier fought in WW2, because their country asked them to.
     
  14. Mito

    Mito Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mussolini:

    The Germans were not defending against the Russians, it was the Germans who made the initial attack against Russia because Stalin (he was ruling at the time, right?) wasnt really doing anything and Hitler saw them as a potential threat against them as Japan was attacking communist China.

    Mussolini
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Red Amry divisions were being positioned the border and deep inside Russia, preparing for an attack.

    Do your homework.
     
  15. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    Jeesh...i didnt/havent studied Russias involvement in WWII. ANd it wasnt like the Russians had declared war or anything on the Germans...they were problary moving those divisions around so that they wouldnt be totally caught off guard if the Germans attacked like teh French were with the 'blitzkrieg' and all. Nothing wrong with that.

    Chill out.
     
  16. Mito

    Mito Member

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    do your homework, dude...
     
  17. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Mito, lay off Il Duce a little bit, after all this is the Italian forum, not the German.
     
  18. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    Thanks Rommel...Mito, one of the reasons why i chose to moderate this part of the froum and the others having to do with it, is because i know more about Italy's involvement in WWII then, lets say, the Germans or Russians. Big deal...i dont know alot about the German/Russian conflict...but give me a break!
     
  19. Mito

    Mito Member

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    Vai tomar no olho do teu cĂș, corno.
     
  20. Mito

    Mito Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rommel:
    Mito, lay off Il Duce a little bit, after all this is the Italian forum, not the German.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ok, I'll lay off a bit.
     

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