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Japan as a victim.

Discussion in 'Post War 1945-1955' started by lwd, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    While most of the following article is about more current events:
    Intelligence: Hidden Surprises In Syria
    It contained the following: "....The most famous example of catching up with deciphering data backlogs occurred after World War II when American code breakers decided to decrypt messages sent by the Japanese government between the time Japan surrendered and the U.S. occupation forces arrived and took control of all government offices. Some of these decrypted messages were shocking. That was because Japan had secretly decided, according to the decrypted diplomatic messages, to play the victim. This was a long-term plan and the Japanese government had come up with it even before their surrender in 1945. In part this was to create some kind of defense for war crimes prosecutions that were already underway against German officials when Japan surrendered. Thus Japan sought to play the victim when it came to their responsibility for horrific wartime actions. The secret messages to Japanese embassies after the surrender contained details on how to spin the fact that Japan, rather than invincible as it had long claimed, was now defeated because it tried to keep the evil West out of Asia. Japanese diplomats were ordered to play up the “Japan is a victim” angle. While this played well in Japan, it annoyed and disturbed the neighbors. Some Japanese understand what is going on here, but because the Japanese educational system is based on this 1945 decision (which played down Japanese atrocities in Japanese textbooks and media in general) most Japanese cannot understand the reaction of foreigners when it comes to Japan and World War II....."

    I hadn't realized that it was as "official" or as planned as that.
     
  2. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    That was nothing new - the "it tried to keep the evil West out of Asia". They claimed it even before the war, it was called The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. The original concepts was to free Asia from European colonial powers, and that Japan and Asia were victims of the evil West:

    Konoe planned the Sphere in 1940 in an attempt to create a Great East Asia, comprising Japan, Manchukuo, China, and parts of Southeast Asia, that would, according to imperial propaganda, establish a new international order seeking "co prosperity" for Asian countries which would share prosperity and peace, free from Western colonialism and domination.
     
  3. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    It wasn't, insofar as I'm aware.
     
  4. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..most criminals do that....'I had to steal'''...''I had to murder'''......etc
     
  5. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    The Japanese were forthright, "We want China, we're going to take it. You non-Japanese have to go. It's our territory now."
     
  6. Class of '42

    Class of '42 Active Member

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    Wasn't their mantra cry.."Asia for Asians"...ok..but look what they did to the Chinese and Koreans....but Japan is the victim???...pfft.
     
  7. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..from my readings, they treated their own soldiers like crap--so what do you think they would do to foreigners?
    ..slapped them around.....
     
  8. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    "All Asians are equal, but some are more equal than others."

    - paraphrasing George Orwell, Animal Farm
     
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  9. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    You are referring to the 'Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere' shit, I think. It was often translated as "Japan gets the prosperity, the rest of Asia gets the spear."
     
  10. Jack B

    Jack B Active Member

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    I think there is a sense in which the Japanese people were the victims of their fractured government and militaries.

    Hardliners in the government and military bullied the country into the war. They suppressed opposition to war. They suppressed any favorable views of the West. The propaganda was unrelenting. The thought police were out in force. The Japanese people were 'brain washed' into thinking war was necessary and laudable. People who had doubts kept them to themselves or believed they just need to develop their own 'Japanese Spirit' more.

    Many Japanese soldiers and sailors felt they were fighting for amore noble cause, e.g. Asia for Asians. Brutalizing other Asians was seen as necessary to help correct their cultures. (This was obviously before the whole #poorme movement of today.)

    So, at a fundamental level, I think the Japanese people were manipulated and betrayed by their government (elements of their government) and military. Senior Navy officers doubted the outcome of a war with the USA, but had ensnared themselves with rhetoric and promises of a victory they doubted they could achieve (largely to secure their budgets and stave off the supremacy of the Army). That Senior cadre failed Japan and the Japanese.

    The Emperor was weak and passive. He failed Japan and the Japanese.

    The Army....was insane. Just insane. I got nothing else there.

    Senior military leaders foresaw the likely outcome of a war with Britain and the USA. They put some faint and fragile hope in the idea of a negotiated peace. Yamamoto predicted that 'Tokyo will be burned to the ground three times.' And then attacked the USA.

    As a result Japan and the Japanese were ultimately the victims of their leaders.

    Nevertheless, too many Japanese war criminals were allowed to escape justice. That one is on the West.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
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  11. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..then you can say the same for the Germans, yes? and all the ''''victims''' [ non-German also ] that committed war crimes/etc.....
    ... and the Iraqis were victims of Saddam/etc etc
    ..like I said, they treated their own soldiers like crap, I thought....their culture was much different--somewhat like the Germans, they were taught to obey [ discipline, which is good up to a point ] ..so they are all '''responsible'' for crimes and the war

    ..a lot of Japanese were for the war and the military--they weren't all '''victims''...same with Germany, a lot were for war and the military--taking Poland/etc..just like in a lot of countries, some people are for the government and their policies, some not
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2020
  12. Jack B

    Jack B Active Member

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    Agreed, Bronk.

    If I step back and look at the war in the Pacific and it's senseless nature, it's hard not to see it as an enormous tragedy. Victims on all sides.

    And too few of those responsible were brought to justice.
     
  13. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ..yes.....if I'm not mistaken, also a '''lot'' of Germans that were found guilty and given many years of life in prison [ or even death ] were let go after only a few years......Peiper for one --12 years instead death!!!..but someone finally got him
     
  14. Jack B

    Jack B Active Member

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    It's a snowy Saturday here, Bronk. No need to get my blood pressure up.........

    :awesome::_lol:
     
  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    The gekokujo of February 26th Incident sealed the fate of the Japanese people. The government was afraid of the military and allowed them to decide if any government was to stand or fall. Object lesson regarding the tail wagging the dog.
     
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  16. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    The army and Navy were generally at each other's throats. They disagreed about everything; strategy, tactics, who would influence the emperor, the outcome of war with the US, among others. The media was in league with the military, only printing their successes. The common person, dependent on the media, as well as their own penchant to believe in their innate superiority allowed them to believe in ultimate victory. I think the emperor, weak as he was, allowed these tendencies to go unchecked. The roots of Japan's feelings go back to the early 20th century? Hotta's (I've forgotten the title) book is enlightening on its background.
    All of that said, Japan's recent claims of victimhood strain belief. While the leadership was culpable, the beliefs of most Japanese allowed them to be ensnared in the war. They certainly did not protest when Japan took the Indies, Thailand, etc., in fact they were overjoyed. Their treatment of China and Korea alone makes them criminals who deserved to get a harsher punishment than they did.
     
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  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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  18. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    Thanks Larry. I remembered the title after I shut off my phone. In my defense, it was late.
     

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