Jets, Manned Rockets, and who had 'em

Greetings one and all,
First, an unrelated note for those following our lives. Today, Susan got, as a permanent loaner, a powered wheelchair. It is a small, sleek, blue and gray number called a "Jazzy" and, unfortunately, weighs about the same as a Fletcher class destroyer, lol. This is a good thing as she has much more mobility than before. Okay, on to the question . . .

I know a couple of the jet or rocket propelled aircraft of WW2, the
ME-262 Schwalbe, the ME-163 Komet (163? And did that thing's fuel REALLY melt pilots, or was that just a myth?), and the umm Oka? Is that right? The Chrysanthemum, right? Was it purely a suicide craft, or was it also meant to engage the enemy with the pilot surviving the encounter?

My REAL question, aside from all those others above, is this:
Can someone give me a really good list of all the jet or rocket propelled aircraft meant to engage the enemy and return the pilot alive for more sorties, please? Again, as usual, I looked at nincompedia, and found a rather incomplete and inaccurate list. Oh, one more thing, were there really any DOCUMENTED jet-jet air combat fights in the war?

Thank you very much in advance.

 

Hummel

before the meds completely take over my feeble brain for your last question please google Mig Alley and see what comes up jet to jet would be the Korean war.

German had the Me 163 Komet which yes because of the strangeness of mixed fuels they were quite combustible on the ground and upon landing if the pilot allowed the small glider type to land with tanks in part full. The most successful was the Me 262 Schwalbe flying with JG 7 notably and several bomber/fighter units plus recon.
The Aradao 234 ws another classy example of bomber and recon jets used with some success in the recon role especially but flown with very few units and few missions involved.

the Oka was of course another story purely impressive, explosive and suicidal from the word go............

 

First things last, or last things first? There weren't any jet v jet fights in WW2, unless you sort of stretch the definition of "jet" by including the un-manned V-1. It was chased down and set upon by the Gloster Meteors, so that is sort of one jet against another. But there weren't any manned jet aircraft which engaged in combat.

There were a number of other jets, but the Germans had "fielded" two out of those they either designed or made prototypes of. The Me-262 of course, and the Arado 234 went into production, while the He-280 and Gotha-229 weren't. The little "Komet" rocket plane really did have a fuel which would literally "melt" the pilot if he and it came into contact. That high percentage hydrogen peroxide was the culprit I think. The same way it "bubbles" on an infection at low percentages, it would "bubble" any organic material away at those concentrations.

The Japanese had both the "Kamakazi" Okha (Cherry Blossom) aircraft, and I believe it was produced mainly in the "jet version", but there was also a "rocket" propelled type as well. I'll have to look for the numbers, but neither were produced in great numbers as I recall. While Okha means "Cherry Blossom", we Americans named it "Baka" (idiot) when we saw it. Japan also made sort of "copies" of the Me-262 ("Kikka I think) and Me-163 ("Shusui"), but neither of them were ready for use before the war ended. I think their version of the two engine jet flew its first flight the day the war ended or something. The Japanese probably had a few others on the drawing board, but those are the only ones produced at all, and mostly in the prototype only.

Of course the aforementioned Gloster Meteor of the UK, which was actually deployed in an active squadron before the Me-262, and the beautiful little de Havilland "Vampire" which, like the American P-80 didn't make it into the war. Then American Bell P-59 which was a test bed and used as a training plane before we got our P-80 program going out of Lockheed. The P-80, the Vampire, and Meteor were the most successful allied designs and flew well into the 50's as both trainers and operational jets. America's P-84 Thunderjet wasn't ready until right after WW2, since its axial flow engine was put on the "back burner" while the Whittle type centrifugal turbo-jet was more reliable.

The Italians only completed a couple of experimental jets, and they were rather weak and slow, one I remember was the Caproni-Campini CC-2, but I don't think they went anywhere past a prototype or two.

The Soviets hadn't really gotten into the race until post war, and then they used captured German engine designs as well as a few air-frame types. I don't really know where to put them. They had some excellent engineers like A.M. Lyul'ka (sp?), but I believe that until the war was over the Soviet air research branches didn't really "go off on any major jet tangents".

 

just to note tech plans and parts for the 262 and 163 were sent to Japan by U-boot, so they could try and field their own .

 

and I forgot that weird "Nadar, or Natter" or whatever which was never deployed by Germany as a bomber interceptor. Don't remember who produced it.

 

Natter: vertical take-off = pilot with broken neck. should of been dropped from 40,000 ft downward onto B-17/B-24 formations but gliding back to earth it would of been shot down easily. Remember goofy Hanna R. and her manned V-1 concept ?

 

You mean this one?

The Fieseler Fi 103R manned missile was one of the many desperate projects conceived as the German situation became more hopeless. Basically the Fi 103R was a piloted version of the V-1 flying bomb powered by the same Argus pulsejet engine. By mid-1944 preparations had been made for mass production, in time for the operation to attack the Allied forces amassed in southern England. The Fi 103R was to be carried by a parent aircraft and released near the target. The pilot would then take over and guide the bomb to a dive toward the target, and he was to detach the canopy and bale out just before impact. The canopy, however, would very likely block the pulsejet inlet and reduce the chance of pilot survival to almost zero.

Nevertheless the Germans went to great lengths to distinguish their Selbstopfermänner (self-sacrifice men) from the Japanese Kamikaze pilots, whose cockpits were sealed close before take-off. The Fi 103R's operation was codenamed Reichenberg and a total of about 175 Fi 103Rs (R for Reichenberg) were made. The R-I, R-II and R-III were used for testing and training, and R-IV was to be the production model. Two Rechlin test-pilots crashed while flying the Fi 103R; afterwards trial flights were transferred to DFR test-pilots Hanna Reitsch and Heinz Kensche.

Flying the Fi 103R was quite simple, since the Fi 103R's unmanned version could fly without direct control. Landing on the other hand was very difficult due to the primitive control system, absence of landing gear and high landing speed. This should not have mattered much because the Fi 103R was not designed to return anyway! The project never took off, due to the German high command's apathy, even though some 70 pilots volunteered for training.

See:

Hanna Reitsch

That whole site has some really bizarro things on it (including Nazi UFOs), most just "hot air" but some real like the "manned V-1".

 

correcto Clint, also would be good maybe even for a laugh to see of the luft46.com site is still in the works, talk about bizarre and far-fetched ideas. some pretty solid ones that could of been seen if the war continued onward another year ...

http://www.luft46.com/

 

Big problem with the war continuing for any more than a few months is; the original target (Nazi Germany) for the atomics would still be in play.

 

hmmmmmm I find that debateable but the time line did not permit so will not go down the what-if trail

 

By nation? These are the ones that flew at least once or were completed protoypes:

German:

Arado Ar 234 jet bomber. Several variants including the A series of 7 prototypes flying on as launch trolley and landing on a skid system. The B series bomber that flew operationally with KG 76, the C series switching to 4 BMW 003 engines that flew as prototypes.

Bachem Ba 349 Natter. This is a small rocket propelled vertically launched interceptor. It is best thought of as a manned surface to air missile. It carried an armament of R4M 55 mm rockets to shot down a target bomber. Successfully flown at least 25 times in testing with at least 7 launches with pilots being successful.


Fieseler Fi 103 Reichenburg. This is a piloted V-1 missile. About 175 were modified for this program and several test flown. None were launched operationally.

Gotha 229. A flying wing jet fighter. One prototype test flew on several occasions eventually crashing on landing after about two hours total flying time.

Henkel 178: The world's first successfully flown jet. It was little more than a demonstration project and had no practical or military value beyond being a proof of concept aircraft.

Henkel 280: Best thought of as an operational testbed for jet fighter design. The He 280 flew in testing from April 1941 through the end of 1944.

Henkel 162 Volksjäger: A single engine jet fighter flew operationally but never actually saw any combat in the few times it was flown under those conditions (this is sometimes disputed and claims are that in the last days of the war it did fly in combat). Manufactured of mostly wood it had construction and airframe weaknesses that made it somewhat dangerous to fly.

Henschel 132A. A jet powered dive bomber that looks superficially alot like the Henkel 162. The pilot flew it lying prone. Did not fly before the war ended.

Junkers Ju 287: A large four engined jet bomber with forward swept wings. Flew as a prototype on several occasions.

Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet: A rocket powered interceptor. Flown operationally but proved dangerous and ineffective in service. The improved Me 163C model with longer range flew at least once.

Messerschmitt Me 262: Twin engine jet fighter. Flew operationally.

Messerschmitt 263 / Ju 248: An improved rocket interceptor. One prototype completed but not actually flown. Post war the Soviets using this captured model flew a redesigned variant as the I-270.

Messerschmitt Me 328: A small pulse jet fighter. Proved impractical. Several prototypes were tested including some powered flight testing. The Argus pulse jets tended to shake the aircraft so badly that the airframe failed structurially on several occasions.

Messerschmitt P1105: A prototype that never flew. Post war Bell Aircraft flew a variant as the Bell X-5

That is the German list.

The Japanese flew these:

Nakajima Kikka: This was an aircraft loosely based on the Me 262. Flew in testing proving underpowered and slow making a top speed of 432 mph.

Mitsubishi J8M1: A Japanese variant of the Me 163 rocket plane. The one test flight ended prematurely in a crash when the rocket motor cut out.

US:

Bell P-59. Flown as an operational test bed from late 1942. Never saw any overseas service
Bell P-83. An enlarged version of the P-59. Designed as a long range fighter flew just after the war ended.
Lockheed P-80. The first operational jet fighter for the US. Three saw limited flight time in Italy just before the war ended.
Consolidated P-81: A jet / turboprop combination: Flew in testing but proved underpowered, slow and, was dropped.
Republic P-84: The thunderjet. Flew shortly after the war ended.
North American P-86 The Jet Mustang. The original design was a P-51H wing and tail assembly on a new jet powered fuselage. Flew in limited testing after the war. Also saw testing as the FJ-1 Fury with the US Navy.
Curtiss P-87 Postwar development started in 1944.
Lockheed P-88 Started in 1945 developed post war.

Ryan FR 1 Fireball. Mixed Jet piston engined fighter. Testing was completed before the war ended and was being worked up as a squadron aircraft immediately after the war
Vought F6U Pirate: Started in 1944 flew post war
McDonnell FH-1 Phantom: One prototype flew just before the war ended. First jet aircraft to land on a carrier postwar.

British

Meteor I and III: The I model flew operationally during the war. The III was just coming into service as the war ended.

Vampire I: This flew post war but development was close to a flying prototype prior to the end of the war.

 

The Campini Caproni was a cross betwenn a ducted propeller and a jet rather than a true jet engine. There was never any thought of an operational derivative as it's performance was inferior to propeller planes.

The following is from a sigle source but a usually reliable one.
The only "operational" jet unit in Italy was Kommando Sommer operating a few (possibly only two T9+EH and T9+FH) Ar 234 recce planes.

The P80 in Italy were 44-83028 and 44-83029 (Lockheed cn. 1007 and 1008) officially attached to 1st fighter group, (42 bomb wing) a P-38 unit, under the command of Col. G. Price. Their first flight in the theater actually predates the German's one. Maj. Ed LaClare made a couple of "offensive" flights north, they were based near Foggia so pretty far south, with one of then but was not involved in combat and it's not sure he did cross the front lines.

My source states four YP-80A were sent to Europe but only two were used in Italy, the other two (c.n. 1004 and 1005) went to England for evaluation.

BTW what about Soviets?
I have 3 "possibes"
the LA-9 hybrid, with a couple of rocket or ramjet engines and a conventional Ash82 fiurteen cyl. radial.
The Mikoian I-259 hybrid propeller + ramjet
The Berezniak-Isaev BI-1 rocket plane.

 

well, I suppose that is technically true, but the thing used a set of ducted fans, powered by a regular aircraft engine to compress the air before it was ignited to produce the thrust. But is would still qualify as a "jet" since that only requires that it is propelled by some sort of thrust. That other bizarre Campini with a regular propeller trapped inside of the fuselage is the weirdest plane I've ever seen a picture of, looked like a hollow flying beer keg or something. As odd as that sounds, it too would be "technically" a jet. But really disappointing in every respect.

At least the CC-2 was sort of pretty.

for a cutaway of the engine, goto:

EnginesOthers

and for the story on the plane, goto:

CC-2

 

Here are a couple pics of that Stipa "flying barrel" plane. One is a reproduction (in color) built in Australia, and the other is (I think) a photo of the real deal in Italy in the thirties. Is it any wonder this generally makes it onto the "ugliest airplane" lists?

 

Please do not remind me of the Stipa-Caproni, one wonders at the Australians building a replica. The only possible justification for it's existence is proving that Italians could outbest the French at making ugly planes .
AFAIK the B&W picture is authentic.

More seriously, research in aerodinamcs produced some really horrible objects (only some of them could actually fly) , the Lancaster based engine test beds, IMO more related to the thread topic than the Stipa, are proof enough.

 

Left one off. The Northrop XP-79 "flying ram." A prototype with the pilot laying prone between two jet engines. It is a flying wing like the Horton / Gotha 229 but a bit smaller.

 

Yeah, that was a beautiful little craft. Too bad it was before the days of "fly by wire" and fast, small computers. The basic instability of the wing doomed its pilot in (I believe) its one and only test flight under jet power. There were two models, a rocket and a jet, but only the jet "B" model flew.

 

I was less than complete. These are the US bomber and attack aircraft projects authorized before September 1945:

Douglas B 42A
Douglas B-43 "Jetmaster"
N. American B-45 Tornado
Convair B-46
Boeing B-47 Stratojet
Martin B-48
Northrop B-49 "Flying wing"

Convair A 44 that became the B 53
Curtiss A 43 that became the P-87

 

I found a page of interesting American designs, after googling "JB-3 Tiamat" from another thread.

In July 1944, Northrop received a contract to develop the JB-1 turbojet-powered flying bomb under project MX-543. Northrop designed a flying-wing aircraft with two General Electric B1 turbojets in the center section, and two 900 kg (2000 lb) general purpose bombs in enclosed "bomb containers" in the wing roots. To test the aerodynamics of the design, one JB-1 was completed as a manned unpowered glider, which was first flown in August 1944.
[SIZE=-1]Photo: Western Museum of Flight[/SIZE] JB-1 Glider

In December 1944, the first JB-1 was ready for launch. The missile was launched by a rocket-propelled sled along a 150 m (500 ft) long track, but seconds after release the JB-1 pitched up into a stall and crashed. This was caused by an incorrectly calculated elevon setting for take-off, but the JB-1 program was subsequently stopped mainly because the performance and reliability of the turbojet engines were far below expectations. The program was reoriented towards pulsejet propulsion, and the remaining JB-1s were modified or completed as JB-10 missiles.

 

Wow, I didn't know that Japanese actually made a plane with a purpose to self-destruct =\

When I saw that they had self-destroying submarines that was pretty crazy but it seems like they really don't mind making suicide bombers and soldiers don't seem to mind too much dying like that...

I've wondered why they don't provide some escape plan as they should reuse good pilots at least if they are not thinking about their lives =\