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Jumbo Sherman

Discussion in 'Modelling' started by Colin, Feb 7, 2003.

  1. Colin

    Colin Member

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    Hey. I was wondering, what was a Jumbo Sherman and how was it different than a normal Sherman? thanks
     
  2. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Colin :

    where have you heard this phrase before ? A book or movie ?

    I can only guess here and am assuming it maybe for the long Barreled Sherman with the Muzzle break often used by British armored divisions

    E
     
  3. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Like the Sherman 'Firefly' with 17-pr gun, you mean ?
     
  4. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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  5. Colin

    Colin Member

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    Ok, thanks. I heard it from a game called G.I. Combat which is a strategy game that has units that are based on real-life units.
     
  6. 5-0-duce

    5-0-duce Member

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    correct it was NOT A FIREFLY but! it did not have a 76mm cannon as a standard arrament either it was the usual 75mm, the 76mm came off of FEW normal shermans in the early European theater, it was JUMBO because, of its armor the hull was: Front 114-140mm@34-90°, side 38mm@90° rear 38mm@68-80° Superstructure front 102mm@43° side 76mm@90° Turret front 152mm@78° side 152mm@84° rear 152mm@88°
     
  7. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Thanks 5-0 ; I stand corrected ! [​IMG]
     
  8. 5-0-duce

    5-0-duce Member

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    sorry i dont wanna make enemies :( i just like 2 make sure that the correct info gets out and i also like to be corrected if i'm wrong
     
  9. Geistforscher

    Geistforscher Member

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    Which model Sherman was in use by the U.S. forces in the Northern Ardenns at the start of the Battle of the Bulge?
     
  10. 5-0-duce

    5-0-duce Member

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    that i know of, all the models that had been produced up till that time.
     
  11. Geistforscher

    Geistforscher Member

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    If it helps, I'm interested in knowing which model Sherman was used by one of the tank companies of the 106th Inf. Div., which took the brunt at the start of the B of B?

    Richard
     
  12. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    I'm putting my toe in the water here, but did they have any Shermans at the beginning of the battle ?

    They certainly had Devine's 14th Cavalry Group and 32nd Cavalry Squadron, but I can only find references to 'light tanks' being used - presumably Stuarts ? :confused:

    Shermans don't seem to have come into the picture until CCB 9th Armored and CCB 7th Armored were detached to support the 106th on December 17th....
     
  13. Geistforscher

    Geistforscher Member

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    My reason for asking is that a friend of the family from France sent me, a few years ago, a tank track coupling from a Sherman that he dug in the Northern Arddens near one of the Siegfried bunker line. He also has many other pieces as well as chunks of armor plate only the size of a human hand dug from the same area.

    Richard
     
  14. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Now that's an intruiging little mystery to solve ! ;)

    Any idea at all where he was digging...?
     
  15. Geistforscher

    Geistforscher Member

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    Martin ... yes, it was dug in an area known as the "Schwarzer Mann" just inside Germany, inside the Siegfried Line, bunker line, about 20 yards from one of the bunkers.

    He said that the area was full of hundreds of foxholes and dozens of bunkers, has been producing a lot of relics over the past three years. The tank track coupling was one of about 60 that he recovered. He has also found small lumps of solid armor plate, but only the size of his hand. This tank must have been hit bad.

    Other relics he found there were fired rifle casings, live clips, k'ration bits, grenades, 20mm German flak, buckles, gasmasks and more.

    Richard

    [ 23. December 2003, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: Geistforscher ]
     
  16. Colin

    Colin Member

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    So was the jumbo sherman bigger than all the other shermans?
     
  17. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    All US tank units used either the M4A1 or M4A3 model Sherman in Europe. The M4A2, M4A4, M4A5 and M4A6 were used variously by the Marines (diesel models) and provided as lend-lease.
    In the Ardennes both the M4A1 and A3 models are present. The A1 is usually found as a cast hull and the A3 as a welded plate hull. Both the 60 degree and 47 degree hulls were used. Most had wet storage shortly after Normandy. Most units had one or the other, but not both.
    By the Ardennes most companies in armored divisions were solidly 76mm T23 turret models with one or two 75mm Shermans retained in each company for HE, smoke etc as the 75 did this better.
    In seperate battalions the mix was closer to 50 -50 76 - 75 as the role of those units tended to be more close support and they saw less tank on tank action. Seperate battalions also have one or two dozer tanks per company.
    The Jumbo was issued to battalions in armored divisions and seperate battalions on a basis of one or two per company at most. Some units did not receive them and some (like 4th Armored for example) turned them down due to their relative immobility. All Jumbos were 75mm gunned with the exception of a few that were field modified to take a 76mm gun near the end of the war.
     
  18. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    correct it was NOT A FIREFLY but! it did not have a 76mm cannon as a standard arrament either it was the usual 75mm, the 76mm came off of FEW normal shermans in the early European theater, it was JUMBO because, of its armor the hull was: Front 114-140mm@34-90°, side 38mm@90° rear 38mm@68-80° Superstructure front 102mm@43° side 76mm@90° Turret front 152mm@78° side 152mm@84° rear 152mm@88° </font>[/QUOTE]After looking at the one at Bovington you can see why it is a jumbo, it seems much bigger somehow. Did it not have a double width track?
     
  19. Colin

    Colin Member

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    By the looks of it, the jumbo sherman could stand a chance against a tiger, right?
     
  20. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    Jumbos were frequently used as a lead vehicle in US armored columns when advancing as they were invulnerable to 75/43 anti-tank gun fire. These guns were far more of a concern than the rare Tiger to US tankers. The usual effect was the column would advance, there would be a loud CRACK!, followed by the boom of the AT gun. The shot would have bounced off the Jumbo which then proceeded to destroy the AT gun and crew with cannon and machinegun fire.
    A few other notes:
    Many Sherman units used a field improvised additional armor plate over the glacis of their tanks. These armor plates varied from 1 to 3" in thickness and were provided as a kit to ordinance maintanence companies to be welded on in the field. This gave a regular Sherman as much frontal armor as a Jumbo had over that area of the tank. There are lots of photos of tanks so converted available. This is an easy modelling modification using sheet plastic.
    Another common field mod was replacing the coaxial .30 machinegun with a .50 cal.
    A common Sherman crew tactic for tackling heavier German tanks was to keep a White Phosphorus round loaded in the gun. As US tanks had better turret rotation and stabilized guns they could usually get the first shot in. Hitting a Panther or Tiger in the front with a willy pete round was found to do two things: Blind the German tank crew with smoke and, choke them with the acrid fumes from the round which their ventilation system sucked in. This gave the US crew time to get in several more shots or retreat out of the line of fire before the Germans could get a shot in.
     

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