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Lancaster website.....

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by Martin Bull, Jan 18, 2003.

  1. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Martin :

    Get both books by Theo if you can. Some of the actions are real brief in nachtjagd but some interesting pics. His night air war from what I have heard is just mostly a supplement to his earlier Nachtjagd book.
    Stevin you have the latter book then ? Would you please make comment..... It is a hard one to come by here in the states. If possible can you send me a scan of the pic showing the Bf 109G-2 ? in the foreground and Peter Spoden's Ju 88G-6 in the background.....? Interesting here is that Peter told me last year that he has never received the original of this pic back from Theo......ooooops ! Well maybe Peter included a copy? in his forthcoming book. Don't know. The last pages cover a particular mission that we are covering in our jet nf book. This about ace Herbert Altner flying the Me 262B-1a/U-1.

    E
     
  2. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Bennett's book, although essential reading, doesn't really details individual raids or go into technical detail of Pathfinder tactics.

    He does say :

    'Take February, 1945 as an example; the Oboe Mosquitoes carried out 427 main operations, whilst the Lancaster heavies carried out 866. The little Light Night Striking Force, however, carried out 1,809 operations against the enemy in that month. Thus the total for my little Group was 3,102 operations for the month, with a loss of only 17 aircraft'...In these days of peace, however, it might be more interesting to realise that we never worked more than seven days in any week, and never more than twenty-four hours per day'.

    D C T Bennett ' Pathfinder ' , first published 1958.

    If the last comment seems a little enigmatic, it's worth remembering that Bennett was a man to harbour a grudge, and his enmity with Cochrane of 5 Group shows up throughout his book. Makes for entertaining reading, but as for objectivity. . . . !

    [ 23. January 2003, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]
     
  3. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Night Airwar is more a collection of personal recollections. Nachtjagd is more a study of the subject, with personal recollections mixed up. Night Airwar does not dissapoint when it comes to pics, at least that is my opinion. The recollections are also more than worth buying the book for.

    I also bought both books in the UK!

    I wrote Theo about that, Erich....No answer! Found the pic, will scan and post later tonight. It also has an interesting pic of the nose of a NF Me262 showing the gun ports and the radar arrays.

    Martin: Thanks for that! Bennett:Vice Air Marshall at 33! :eek: What have I been doing with my life? Where did I go wrong?

    [ 23. January 2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]
     
  4. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Stevin : have heard mixed reviews.........

    If you could please along with the scan, inform as to what it covers in text during 1945 and any pics unseen of Ju 88G-6's. I am curious if it is quite a bit different than his Nachtjagd title.

    thanks !

    E
     
  5. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Just been away for the weekend and took Boiten's 'Night Airwar' with me.

    I have to say that I quite literally couldn't put it down ! The personal experiences cover many aspects from both sides with personal evaluations of aircraft and many photos which are nearly all 'private snapshots' and are certainly new to me.

    Also, importantly, many of the accounts describe some of the lesser-known or 'trivial' aspects of operational flying which are not covered by other books - this is the sort of information which is in danger of 'dying with the survivors'.

    Anyway - I like it ! And please forgive me for including a snippet of quotation from 4./NJG6's Lt. Helmut Bunje ; -

    'In all important aspects the Ju88, and especially the Ju88 G-6, was superior to the Bf 110 G-4. From my own point of view, it was the best night-fighter available to us during the last six months of the war. Nevertheless, most of us would have given a big cheer if we had had an enviably good aircraft which came of the British production lines ;
    the MOSQUITO ! '

    :cool: ;) :D

    [ 26. January 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]
     
  6. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Yep, Stevin gave me a little run down on the contents for 1945. Ah so many titles to choose from.
    Was that a little jab at the end my friend ! ;) har, har. Helmut of course was not the only Luftwaffe pilot to feel that way about his Junkers or the wiley Mossie .....
    You have obviously read a little about Walter Briegleb's ops over England in Unternehmen Gisela. He shot down two Beufighters at night and maybe the only German nf pilot to do so......December 44. martin is Walter's Ju 88G-6 depicted in pics in the book ?

    E
     
  7. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Indeed yes, the section on Operation Gisela I found very interesting, and baffling as to why the Luftwaffe didn't try this before.

    There's no picture, unfortunately - but I did like the 'snapshot' elsewhere in the book that shows, in the background, Peter Spoden's Ju 88G-6 parked at Schwabisch-Hall.

    This book will find a place among the top rank of Bomber-war books in my collection.
     
  8. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Martin :

    Actually NJG 2 as a whole was perfoming the Fernenachtjagd over the UK during 41-42. Flying the Ju 88C-6 the pilots found that the a/c lacked the heavy armament needed to shoot down enemy bombers over their bases as well as limited fuel tanks and also no Schräge Musik till august of 43.
    The Bf 110G-4 was no way able to perform this function and get the crews home so only with the advent of the latest Ju 88G-6 models could this be acheived, and also since "Fatty" had such a tight ring over day/night time flyers, the order was to defend the Reich at all costs and not go galvamping around over England in search of prey.
    After Gisela there were two other raids, the next being a total of 18 Ju 88G-6's and the last was an almost futile attempt by only2 Ju 88G-6's one being successful and this pilot from NJG 2.

    E
     
  9. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Thanks for pointing this out, Erich.

    It's that old 'context of time' thing again - as in, what if the RAF could have mounted 'Hamburg-style' raids in 1941, what if the Me262 had been available in 1942, and so on.....

    But they couldn't, and they weren't, and so on... ;)

    [ 27. January 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]
     
  10. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Yes you are quite correct Martin ! Say a little homework if you have the time.... ;) Does Sir Arthur Harris make any mention of the January 16/17 1945 mission over the Reich in his book ? A big night for the Luftwaffe, and am wondering about the English account(s). And also the Gisela raid in March of 45 ?

    thanks

    E
     
  11. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Martin any possiblity you can post a scan of the Chemnitz raid map(s) of February 14/15, 45 out of the bomber offensive book now as you have a digi camera ?

    have found 1 of the Halifax III's lost due to fire from I./NJG 2 ace Heinz Rökker as confirmed bei Schonau. A total of 9 Nachtjagd claims, 8 not found yet for this very confusing and successful RAF raid. Nothing yet about Theo Boitens Battle with the Nachtjagd as of yet supposed to be due out by years end.....

    v/r Erich ~
     
  12. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    This is about the best I can get it at the moment - not being possessed of a true scanner. The 'barrel' effect isn't the lens - it's the page of the book !

    ( Details sent by pm ).

    [ 22. November 2005, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]
     
  13. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Martin I apprciate your helpfulness........... :D

    thinking seriously of making a personal raid upon KEW to get the mission report and maybe more sometime in the future. the holdings there I have found are tremendous and they have all from 1st janaury 45 till wars end in A-3 page format with full mission report/maps, etc.........

    thanks

    Erich
     
  14. 156Squadron

    156Squadron Member

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    Re Pathfinder Tactics, the best description I have found so far was a secret german report published in Mahaddies book.

    So good I thought that I have included it on my website http://www.156squadron.com under the heading What is a Pathfinder.
     
  15. rustychisel

    rustychisel recruit

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    Hello, just wanted to say hello to all through a dormant thread which I found whilst Googling my father's name. I never have before, very odd...

    In any event, my father was a Flying Officer on the crew of Capt Edwin Swales, VC; a member of the Pathfinder Force until his death in 2000, and I have his medals, logbook, other books etc.

    It was my father who was the last man out of the aircraft, Lancaster 'M Mother' when Swales gave the order to bale out, and who provided the finale to the citation "But for Ted we should not be here". He admitted much later it was the best he could come up with.

    Anyway, hope this finds you all well and still active.
     
  16. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Hello rustychisel and a very warm welcome !:cool:

    I'm very familiar with the story of Ted Swales and have visited Little Staughton airfield on a number of occasions ( it is one of the best-preserved remaining Pathfinder bases in the UK ).

    No doubt you have a copy of Sean Feast's book 'Master Bombers' which tells the story of 582 Squadron and includes a chapter about Captain Swales.....
     
  17. jemimas_special2

    jemimas_special2 Shepherd

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    Martin,

    Great website, I've been checking it out this morning... I have definitely learned more about battle air tactics, and more on the elite Pathfinder group.

    Jem
     
  18. John Wroehibli

    John Wroehibli Member

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    I had the privilege of wandering through the Canadian Lancaster a couple weeks ago at the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in Hamilton.

    I think I'm going to spend a dollar or two and actually go for a ride in her.

    John
     
  19. rustychisel

    rustychisel recruit

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    To be honest, I have no idea what books I have now, all of my father's collection to be sure, and he helped a lot of researchers in his latter years with info and photos etc. At present they're all in storage due to an extensive and ongoing house renovation, but I think the end (aka unpacking) is in sight. I've read lots of them over the years, but cannot recall those which were worthy (Ross' snort of approval) and those which were adjudged to be factually inaccurate or sensationalist.

    As with most who served, he didn't talk about things at all until the later years of his life (he died in 2000) and never marched at the local ANZAC day march. Yet his loyalty to his Pathfinder mates was absolute; I think there may be only one or two Aussie pathfinders still alive, sadly.

    As an aside, can anyone tell me why this forum is down more often than 'up', it seems offline an awful lot. Or perhaps downtime is scheduled for northern hemisphere...
     
  20. Clark

    Clark Member

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    Sorry for going off topic but I live in Hamilton Ontario and I've visited the Canadian Warplane museum and its amazing. From what I've heard is that there are only two working Lancaster's left in the world. It usually flies around the city monthly, its amazing to see it still working. If you pay the right price you can even get to be a passenger on it. Here are some more pictures from their website.CANADIAN WARPLANE HERITAGE
     

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