Le Tour de France

If i was him, i'd fire the Doctor who gave it to me! lol - Mayo really sucked in the Tour, inconsistant as he ever was. If thats how he did doping, i'd hate to see him clean! I'd be able to give him a ride for his money!

 

Yes ! So true ! Doping himself, achieving close to nothing and getting caught, I must say this is a fiasco for Mayo !

On a more serious tone, I foresee LEIPHEIMER doing great things in the years to come, this guy has potential and I found him more impressive than CONTADOR or EVANS.

Anyway, I'm afraid next Tour will be the same sad prank of a show all over again

 

right now all of pro cycling is so corrupt TV watchers will probably drop off as well as attendees for this Fall's giro - Spain ?

discovery team pulled out so those boyz who are also in the dope racket in my opinion will probably go over with Lance A.'s hooked up Hewett-Packard who has got bucks to spare and support financially .

it is going to take years if ever to clean house, what a waste on a great sport ~ by the way Vino says it was all in regard to railroading him and Astana out of the TdF ........... well sorry moron but you were never in the tour physically and Klöden was kicking your lily white a** the whole time and should of blown out to secure a more higher rank...........doesn't matter you were caught with the goods in another doping matter almost at the tours start

life goes on

 

Well, to give Vino credit, he did have a rather nasty crash that most other people would have dropped out of the Tour from! 20-odd stiches in his knees, which get a lot of motion/flex when pedaling a bike. I do give him credit for toughing it out the way he did, but he really wasnt a contender after the crash. Astana tactics were bad in trying to keep him in it while Kloden was by far the better of the two.

I think because it is European the whole drug thing is a big deal. Cycling is no worse then the NFL or MLB when it comes to doping, but you dont hear anything about that.

 

And Chocapic, if you don't mind, I actually agree with your ENTIRE post ;-))

In other words--well said.

 

@ Muss : You can't single out US sports, it's the same everywhere and I don't think you can point your finger at US sports having more dope than other types of sports in other countries.
OK, it's quite possible there are more cries and scandals in other countries about this issue, but what is really done to get rid of this : not much, just cry louder.

And of course, a given sport is more or less prone to doping, when it's main requisites are sheer energy and endurance, but when it comes to wit, fast reflexes, collective sophisticated gameplay, agility or dexterity, dope helps but don't make everything.

For example, I think that with an adequate physical preparation, some time and loads of dope, you can make an average Joe a real performant weight hauler or bicycle runner, with all the dope in the world , you can make a Michael Jordan better, but you can't make a Michael Jordan from scrap just with dope.

Now wait a sec please, while I kneel a moment in praise of Michael Jordan (I'm a fan)

@ Evans : we just can't always disagree. If you want to agree more with me, I'm sure we could talk about ZZ Top, Johnny Winter, Stevie Ray Vaughn etc etc

 

Good choice of musicians ;-D Stevie Ray Vaughn is good, as well as ZZ Top. Im familiar with Johnny Winter but not sure what I have heard that is his?

 

it's all over for Floyd Landis, a two year ban from pro-cycling and his TdF title stripped ...........

my sport continues to be plagued ~ :cycle:

 

A lot of things need to change in the Cycling World. For starters, using a French Lab to test riders. Not to mention the governing body. The list goes on.

 

Muss the last two days I have talked with pro-rider friends .......... we all agree they should just fire the lot- officials, lab crews, etc. and then bar any pro-cycle events for a year to "clean-house"

it would work ~ E

 

Brilliant !

Let's ban French Labs and US blood and urine

If you don't take the weight to handle the message, just shoot the messenger

 

Landis was banned by a U.S. court. for once nobody can say it was biased and tell the usual fiction.

 

I think you misunderstood what I said. The French Lab has mishandled so many cases and breached their own codes of conduct that many people find it hard to believe them. The Lab is butt-buddies with a particular French Newspaper too, which only adds fuel to the fire. They need to use a lab in Switzerland or something - some place where Cycling isn't the National Sport. The Governing body has been horrendous in dealing with Doping and if changes are made in the top, bring in some one who can really crack down on the whole doping thing, then the sport might start to do better. I think even the organizers of the TdF are no longer going to deal with the UCI for next years TdF (read something a while ago about that).

 

from bikejerseys.com news affiliate.

you guys decide, the whole thing is wrapped around nonsense and corruption within the hierarchy as well as the pro-cycling teams. My statement still stands. bar all for a year

By EDDIE PELLS, AP National Writer
September 21, 2007
AP - Sep 20, 2:50 pm EDT
More Photos
PARIS (AP) -- Floyd Landis lost his title. The anti-doping system that did him in received a warning.
Arbitrators voted to strip the championship from the 2006 Tour de France winner Thursday, upholding the results of a test that showed Landis used synthetic testosterone to fuel his spectacular comeback victory.
But the decision, which bans Landis from cycling through Jan. 30, 2009, also spelled out the numerous problems with the system and the French lab that analyzed Landis' urine.
Not all the criticism came in the scathing dissent written by arbitrator Chris Campbell.
"If such practises continue, it may well be that in the future, an error like this could result in the dismissal" of a positive finding by the lab, wrote Patrice Brunet and Richard McLaren in the majority opinion.
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<script language=javascript><!-- randNum = ((new Date()).getTime() % 2147483648) + Math.random(); document.write( "<a href='http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jgiqfl4/M=560010.11470068.11979210.1806201/D=sports/S=95912571:LREC/_ylt=AtZufHl4ncY4m6dPiyZ0kOp7grcF/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1190399296/A=4901797/R=0/SIG=13cikhi2u/*http://a.tribalfusion.com/i.click?site=YahooSports&adSpace=300x250&size=300x250&requestID=1190392096431646" + randNum + "' target=_blank>" + "<img src='http://a.tribalfusion.com/i.ad?site=YahooSports&adSpace=300x250&size=300x250&requestID=1190392096431646" + randNum + "'" + " width=300 height=250 border=0 alt='Click Here'></a>"); // --></script> <noscript> <a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jgiqfl4/M=560010.11470068.11979210.1806201/D=sports/S=95912571:LREC/_ylt=AtZufHl4ncY4m6dPiyZ0kOp7grcF/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1190399296/A=4901797/R=1/SIG=13cikhi2u/*http://a.tribalfusion.com/i.click?site=YahooSports&adSpace=300x250&size=300x250&requestID=1190392096431646" target=_blank> <img src="http://a.tribalfusion.com/i.ad?site=YahooSports&adSpace=300x250&size=300x250&requestID=1190392096431646" width=300 height=250 border=0 alt="Click Here"></a> </noscript> Landis seized on these points to claim he is still the rightful winner of the race, and that he was nothing more than a pawn in a bigger game that led to the arbitration. He has a month to decide whether he will take the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport -- his last line of appeal.
He didn't feel he'd get a fair shot there, either.
"I have to assess whether a system that corrupt is worth subjecting myself to again," Landis told ESPN.com. "I don't have any reason to believe that CAS is any more sincere."
In an earlier statement, Landis said "I am innocent, and we proved I am innocent."
"This ruling is a blow to athletes and cyclists everywhere," Landis said. "For the Panel to find in favor of USADA when, with respect to so many issues, USADA did not manage to prove even the most basic parts of their case shows that this system is fundamentally flawed."
U.S. Anti-Doping Agency CEO Travis Tygart applauded the decision.
"Today's ruling is a victory for all clean athletes and everyone who values fair and honest competition," Tygart said.
In its 84-page decision, the majority found the initial screening test to measure Landis' testosterone levels -- the testosterone-to-epitestosterone test -- was not done according to World Anti-Doping Agency rules.
But the more precise and expensive carbon-isotope ratio analysis (IRMS), performed after a positive T-E test is recorded, was accurate, the arbitrators said, meaning "an anti-doping rule violation is established."
n the 2006 Tour de France now stands to inherit the title after tests showed the American champion used synthetic testosterone to fuel his spectacular comeback victory. Floyd Landis of the U.S. lost his expensive and explosive doping case Thursday Sept. 20, 2007 when the arbitrators upheld the results of a test that showed the 2006 Tour de France champion used synthetic testosterone to fuel his spectacular comeback victory, The Associated Press has learned. " border="0" height="240" width="177">
AP - Sep 20, 2:49 pm EDT
More Photos "As has been held in several cases, even where the T-E ratio has been held to be unreliable ... the IRMS analysis may still be applied," the majority wrote. "It has also been held that the IRMS analysis may stand alone as the basis" of a positive test.
The decision comes more than a year after Landis' stunning comeback in Stage 17 of the 2006 Tour, one that many people said couldn't be done without some kind of outside help.
Pat McQuaid, leader of cycling's ruling body, said rules dictate that Landis can be stripped of his Tour de France title immediately. That makes Oscar Pereiro, who finished second last year, the official winner.
"It's not a great surprise considering how events have evolved," McQuaid said. "He got a highly qualified legal team who tried to baffle everybody with science and public relations. And in the end, the facts stood up."
Landis insisted on a public hearing not only to prove his innocence, but to provide an unflinching look at USADA and the rules it enforces, and also establish a pattern of incompetence at the French lab where his urine was tested.
Although the panel rejected Landis' argument of a "conspiracy" at the Chatenay-Malabry lab, it did find areas of concern. They dealt with chain of command in controlling the urine sample, the way the tests were run on the machine, the way the machine was prepared and the "forensic corrections" done on the lab paperwork.
"... the Panel finds that the practises of the Lab in training its employees appears to lack the vigor the Panel would expect in the circumstances given the enormous consequences to athletes" of an adverse analytical finding, the decision said.
In Campbell's opinion, the Landis case should have been dismissed.
"The documents supplied by (the French lab) are so filled with errors that they do not support an Adverse Analytical Finding," Campbell wrote. "Mr. Landis should be found innocent."
In at least one respect, Landis was innocent, because the panel dismissed the T-E test. But in the arbitration process, a procedural flaw in the first test doesn't negate a positive result in follow-up tests.
In his dissent, Campbell latched onto the T-E ratio test, among other things, as proof that the French lab couldn't be trusted.
"Also, the T-E ratio test is acknowledged as a simple test to run. The IRMS test is universally acknowledged as a very complicated test to run, requiring much skill. If the LNDD couldn't get the T-E ratio test right, how can a person have any confidence that LNDD got the much more complicated IRMS test correct?"

AP - Sep 20, 2:48 pm EDT
More Photos It was confusion like this that resulted in the harsh review the anti-doping movement received during Landis' nine-day hearing in May.
But Landis also took his share of abuse, and ultimately, USADA still improved to 35-0 in cases it has brought before arbitration panels since it was founded in 2000.
More than the complex, turgid scientific evidence, the hearing will be remembered for the Greg LeMond brouhaha.
The hearing turned into a soap opera when the former Tour de France winner showed up and told of being sexually abused as a child, confiding that to Landis, then receiving a call from Landis' manager the night before his testimony threatening to disclose LeMond's secret to the world if LeMond showed up.
LeMond not only showed up, he also claimed Landis had admitted to him that he doped. That was the only aspect of the LeMond testimony the panel cared about.
"The panel concludes that the respondent's comment to Mr. LeMond did not amount to an admission of guilt or doping," the majority wrote.
Despite that, and many other flaws in the lab, Brunet and McLaren found Landis guilty.
The decision comes a full 14 months after Landis' final sprint down the Champs-Elysees. On Thursday, the street was bustling with businessmen and shoppers, not bicyclists and spectators.
"We waited too long," Tour de France race director Christian Prudhomme said. "But it is an ending as we expected. It's over, and we never had any doubts."

Updated on Friday, Sep 21, 2007 4:09 am, EDT​

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Thanks Erich and Musso, I appreciate the precisions. Any other lab would have had the same result. If it can put things to rest, they can use a Swiss lab, I wouldn't mind. The French labs are totally independent though and there is no x-files secret service telling them to change their results. I can tell that Prudhomme is a fair man and his sole goal is to get the Tour rid of the cheaters, no matter their nationality and he certainly has nothing against Americans. In fact the French population has enough trouble in their daily life and couldn't care less about the Tour. Do some of you really think there is some kind of an anti-american coalition in the Tour? I can't honestly believe that educated people like you can believe that kind of propaganda. Landis is "just" one of many cheaters. These include racers from many nationalities, including French and the Tour has made a difficult choice by firing them. If they had stayed, it would have been no fair for the others. I know it seems kind of strict, but doping is not only a matter of ethics, it's also a matter of public health. If youngsters think they can get doped, then the Tour would not be a joke but also a dangerous example for future generations. At his point the message is clear. I you're doped, you've got nothing to do in the Tour. Also The Tour is far from being a national sport, it's just the biggest and the oldest (1903), but most of us couldn't care less as to the nationality of the winner.The fact of eliminating everybody to make a Frenchman win (yes, I heard this) is just pure fiction. If a Frenchman wins, that's fine, if an American wins that's fine too and people have other things to do than spending their evenings on bashing Landis. As prudhomme says: it is now over and there was no other alternative to be expected as there were no doubts.

 

Skipper ever since Lance A. pulled it off from 199 onward he has been watched and mysteriously things were coming out in the open about American cyclists and the purposed "cheating". this made world headlines and you can imagine racers like myself and others in the cycling world heard all about this through the vine.......yes there was blame on the French, and why not ? at the time it appeared that the French assembly was trying to cast doubts not just upon Discovery and Team postal but any US of A rider within the pro-circuit. Obviously because of what has happened to Landis, and yes I think he is a doping crook, other nations riders of significance were unloaded on: Basso, Ullrich running a weeny stand in Germany now who still denies everything, and many others. teams Astana are going to be no more, Discovery has bailed out at years end. Austrian Gerolsteiner is quitting in 08..............the list goes on. I go back that cheaters never prosper no matter how hard they try, and what really grabs my pant leg is that they do not need the mystical strength enhancers in the first place .............. let em all rot, and delete the tours next season

 

Well said Erich, The only thing I don't agree with is when you say they were trying to catch "any" American. I don't think I'm wrong when I say it has nothing to do with nationality. Maybe this was the perception you had, but it really isn't the impression I am getting here. I didn't know you were a racer until I read this thread by the way.

 

my friend it was the thought of myself and my riding buds back in 2000 and 2001 when appearance seemed to be everything...........now all pro-riders are suspect sadly, where does it end ? it may not.

well guess in time we will go through the "cleansing" of US football, baseball, basketball and good heavens Tennis !! nah but probably pro-bowling

 

You forget that this is a very old competition, which has been doomed by dope affairs for nearly a century ! Suspicion has been present for dozens of years.

Polemics about Motta in 1966 Merckx in 1969 Zoetemelk in 1977 Thevenet in 1976, Fignon in 1987, hinault in 1982 Roche in 1993, Kuipe in 1977 Zulle in 1993, Pantani in 1993, Indurain in 1994 Riis in 1995 etc etc I could make 2 pages with this list.

Some people just forget that the history and polemics around the Tour and dope did not start from the point US media got their eyes on this competition and Armstrong.

And, alas, often reacted like if it was an attack againt them, or their country.

BTW Jorg Jaksche (Germany / Tinkoff team) has just been banned for 1 year because of doping, he admitted being doping since 1997.

 

interesting views from several cyclists plus other threads on this very forum covering Landis and the dope committee.........

Why I am uncomfortable with Landis decision - Topic Powered by eve community