Looking to buy a K98

Hey y'all I'm looking to buy a K98 for around $330ish. I know it's a little bit low for a budget, but I'm just trying to start out my rifle collection. If anyone is looking to sell one, I'm not too particular on serial numbers matching, just don't want anything to do with mexican mausers. I'd like it in as good a condition as possible. I'm also in the market for an M1898 Butcher Blade bayonet, would love to get a scope as well but the ZFS 38s are ridiculously pricey. I'm also potentially willing to part with a couple of my own relics... considering selling my 1916 medic's manual, anyone that's interested can shoot me an e-mail for pics... haven't decided what I'll sell it for. Also might sell my 1943 draft law book, same procedure as above for pics. Will happily send pics of my old Mk. IV pineapple grenade paperweight and Iron Cross 1st Class, but neither is for sale.

As always,
Fatheranderson

 

I would suggest checking out the Shotgun News magazine.

http://www.shotgunnews.com/

 

Show up here and take your choice cheap:

Crossroads of the West Gunshow

 

Thanks for the refs on where to buy 'em. Can't make it to the crossroads gunshow this year because of college stuff, but I definitely have to check it out some time. In the spirit of helpfulness I'll also post a site that has a lot of cheap, collector's grade military rifles: Southernohiogun.com. The only problem is that they won't even disclose their pricing to anyone that doesn't register a valid FFL with them. I managed to get a glimpse of one of their catalogues, and their prices are dirt cheap (k98s for $260, M1 Garands for about $800, and mosin nagants for $68) if any of y'all have an FFL, definitely check them out.

 

do not be surprised friend at the 250-400.00 price bracket for a Karbiner 98 you pick one up that is miss-matched and not all original. But maybe you are not bothered by this........

good luck, many of us purchased or traded for ours years ago ours our now worth in the thousand dollar bracket which is total insanity

E ~ just a little heads up I have dealt sight unseen with shot-gun news for many many years, though they have some great bargains you are not seeing the weapon first hand, originality cannot be assured ~

 

I know a dealer in Houston who sells nothing buy German Mausers. However, he is pricey. I bought one from him about 10 years ago-which is all-matching and in mint condition, had exactly 4 owners since 1935, and I then paid $650.00 for it-he wanted $800.00-and is a long story to tell. This rifle in particular, has a 1936 stamped 25 round MG-13 fixed magazine and is also one of about 200 made. There is one like mine printed in "Backbone of the Wehrmacht" vol Nr. 2 by: Philipp Law.

 

I'm not all too bothered by mismatched serial numbers, and as for it containing all original pieces, those can be bought for a decent price in various places and installed onto the rifle. However, I'm going to take the careful route on this one if I decide to buy it from S.O.G and have it sent to a friend's pawn shop. When it gets there, I'll inspect it and only buy it after I have a local museum curator inspect it. If all else fails I'll just charge the 1k to a CC. Out of interest, would anyone happen to know off-hand the approximate price of a K-98 sniper? I know they're ridiculously pricey, and I'd probably be better off just buying a non-sniper then adding a scope later on... but I can't resist the idea of a Mauser sniper rifle.

 

BTW you don't need a FFL to get these weapons. A Curio & Relics license works also and is cheaper to get. I'm applying for one soon.
The FFL 03 C&R, or Curios and Relics is, simply put, using the words of my wife, a neutered FFL 01 license. The C&R allows you to purchase eligible firearms across state lines, transfer eligible weapons between licensed people, and order eligible weapons through the mail (UPS or FedEx). It is NOT a business license; it is purely for your own collecting activities. You have to be careful about that. Yes, you can sell a C&R acquired eligible firearm, but you cannot do it for your “livelihood”. You may sell or “dispose” of a C&R weapon to anyone not prohibited in your state, or to a licensee in another state.
What is a Curio or Relic, ala Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) part 178, section 178.11Curios or Relics: Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of
the following categories: (a) Firearms that were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.
A C&R license allows you to purchase rifles, pistols, shotguns and machineguns (yep, there are some of them too) that are on the ATF C&R list. Basically, these are weapons that are at least 50 years or older. HOWEVER, just because a weapon is 50 or more years old, does not make it an automatic C&R eligible weapon. ATF has a web page that lists all of the C&R eligible weapons at:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm​

Some listings of interest are:

• All Original military bolt action and semiautomatic rifles mfd. between 1899 and 1946.
• All properly marked and identified semiautomatic pistols and revolvers used by, or mfd. for, any military organization prior to 1946.
• All shotguns, properly marked and identified as mfd. for any military organization prior to 1946 and in their original military configuration only
• U.S. Rifle, caliber .30, M1, original issue only, produced prior to 1958.

The key word in these lists are “original”. That is, if the rifle was altered as a sporter, it no longer is eligible as a C&R rifle. One has to be careful about that. The question is, at what point is it considered “altered”? There is also some debate about rifles that were altered by the military into another military rifle, such as a 7mm 1916 Spanish Mauser into a 7.62 NATO “Guardia Civil”. There are some that argue that it was altered and is therefore not eligible.



http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/howtogetyourcurionrelicffl03/index.asp

You have to meet some minimum qualifications first:

• 21 years or more of age;
• You cannot be prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving or possessing firearms or ammunition; (i.e., you are not a convicted felon, also, you have to be a US citizen or permanent resident or have special dispensation)
• You have not willfully violated the Gun Control Act (GCA) or its regulations;
• You have not willfully failed to disclose material information or willfully made false statements concerning material facts in connection with his application (in other words, you did not lie on your application!)

If you think you are eligible for the license, then there are a couple of ways to get the required forms.

You USED to be able to download the forms or get them sent from your local ATF office. That is no longer the case. Now you need to either contact their central distribution center via online or phone. There is no charge to get the forms.

Online: go to http://www.atf.treas.gov/dcof/index.htm and request (on the right side of the screen)

“F7CR 5310.16 Application for License (Collector of Curios and Relics) Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms”

They will ship the forms to you in a week or two.

Phone: Call (703) 455-7801 and put in your request for a “Form 7CR, Curio or Relic application kit” Again, it will take a week or two to get the forms.

 

Wow, thanks for the info JC. The K98s I'm looking at atm are soviet re-arsenals, so I don't know if they do or don't qualify, considering that they're still military and the work is still over 50 years old. Considering that the only work done on the exact model I'm looking at was a re-bore and re-bluing, as well as a renumber on the bolt, I think it counts as kind of original... least I hope it does... I'll make sure to clarify whether the feds consider it eligible or not, but if they do, that'll save a ton of time and cash.

 

No Prob. Alot of people don't know that you don't have to have an FFL to buy collector weapons. Just a C&R.

 

you need to go beyond what has been stated and check you local state and county regulations of ANY firearms, even collector pieces, if it is not totally a de-act then you become liable regardless. another thing is check with a good reputable gun-smith and as a further suggestion forget pawn shops altogether that is just another bag of nasty worms you do not need to be concerned with

 

Well worth the 30 bucks I think .

The starting reference point for all of this information is found at: ATF Online - Firearms FAQs

The basic idea is that you will apply for a license, by filling out a form from the ATF (and paying the appropriate fees, which are now $30 for 3 years).

Here are the steps to acquiring a C&R FFL:



1. Download, or request by mail, ATF Form 7, Application for License, or ATF Form 7CR, Application for License (Collector of Curios or Relics).

Note: These forms may be obtained from the Firearms and Explosives Licensing Center in Atlanta, Georgia, (404) 417-2750, or your local ATF office; or the application form can be downloaded from the ATF site, shown below.

2. Fill this form out and submit it, with the appropriate fee, according to the instructions on the form.

3. You should sign a copy of the forms sent to the ATF and send it to the local CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) in your area, along with a short note letting them know that you have applied to the ATF to become a C&R collector.

4. You will wait from 4 to 8 weeks from the time that you submit your application until you receive your license.

5. Once you receive your license, you will be able to purchase C&R items. You will need to send a signed copy of your FFL to the dealer that you are ordering the item from.
6. Do not sign the original copy of the license that you receive. Make a number of photocopies of it, and then sign them, in ink, as you send them to the places that you want to order firearms from. (The copies that the dealers receive must be signed in ink!)

The Bound Book

After you have received a C&R firearm, you will "Log it" into a bound book, which is a simple listing of the date of purchase and related information. The bound book, is also known as a Acquisition and Disposition Record. You can keep this information in an electronic format, such as a spreadsheet, but must receive ATF approval to do so. A place to download an electronic bound book, once you've determined that you can go that route, is shown under the legal sites below.

The Bound Book record for acquiring a firearm lists things the manufacturer, model, serial number, type, caliber, date and the name/address of whom you got it from. The disposition side includes the date, name, drivers' license or identification for non-licensees and residency documentation if it is going to an alien. See the picture of the bound book below.


8 THINGS TO KNOW AS A C&R HOLDER

1. Am I a Dealer?

A C&R FFL entitles you to collect firearms.</SPAN>

"While a licensed collector may acquire curios or relics and dispose of same from a personal collection, A LICENSED COLLECTOR IS NOT AUTHORIZED TO ENGAGE IN BUSINESS AS A DEALER IN ANY FIREARMS, INCLUDING CURIOS OR RELICS." -- ATF site.


2. How do I track purchases?

You need to log all firearms obtained via the C&R FFL, into a "bound book" (see things to track below).


3. What should I do first after I get my C&R FFL?

In order to purchase a C&R eligible firearm, you will need to send a signed copy of your FFL to the seller. Once you have your C&RFFL, you may wish to immediately send a signed (signed in ink, not a photocopied signature) copy of your FFL to some of the larger firearms dealers and wholesalers -- just so they have it on file. In many cases, this will also entitle you to 01 dealer-level discounts on other items, including parts, which are sold at these places.


4. If it's over 50 years old -- is it automatically a C&R?

Yes! But check!
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/4653/cnrover50.htm


5. How do I Rate firearms?

When you talk to someone who is selling you a firearm, the condition of the firearm is critical in determining price. When the transaction is being done sight unseen, it can be difficult to know what it REALLY means when someone says that a rifle is in "Great shape". It is best to use the NRA guidelines on condition for a common denominator -- that way you will have a better chance of getting what you expect (and have paid for).


Shotgun News, Do you need a Curio and Relics License?

 

If you want a Mauser Sniper Rifle-your lookint at about $2,500 on up. Mine is a Sniper rifle that I happened to get a good deal on because I was at the right place at the right time. ;-D

 

$2,500 @_@;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; owch.... I think I'll stick with just a standard rifle and buy the scope separate... matching serial numbers won't be any detriment to it's performance (I know the snipers are more accurate than the standard rifles, but I'm not going to be using it in any way that would really require anything more than the standard 800m effective range.)

 

I figure I might as well ask yall this question, because I'm considering forgoing the extras on the K-98 and going for an extra rifle while I'm down at the Dallas gun show. Does anyone know what kind of Mosin Nagant is the best by way of accuracy, and what kind of price I'd be looking at paying for one? I'm thinking about going for a nice, cheap M44 or M38, but I've heard that they have a higher rate of bolt defects than some of the other versions (due to the Nazis putting huge pressure on the Russian infantry during those years, which meant that a lot of the rifles were rushed in order to get them to the front lines fast enough and in great enough numbers to help supply the front lines.)

 

I have had both. They both worked fine for me and were quite accurate. The most I paid for mine was $79 for the M38 and $89 for the M44 and that was at a local sporting good store. My M38 was a 1938 issue and the M44 carbine was a 1944 issue lol. Im looking to pick another M38 up soon.

Modern Firearms - Rifle - Mosin-Nagant M1891 91/10 91/30 1938 1944

 

Thanks for the info JC. I found a couple of 'em on the net for around $100, which seemed a bit high to me. Also found a few from Southern Ohio Gun for $65, complete with the standard extras (oil bottle, cleaning rod, and wierd looking tool thingy). After checking around on the net, though, I'm not too sure there's a huge amount of difference between the 38 and 44 apart from the bayonet and the vintage (and there are occasions when both models share a vintage). I know there are differences between the rifles made by different factories, but those aren't of too much interest to me. I figure for $89, I'll be able to buy the rifle and add some nice after markets on it without breakin the bank. Also, anyone know what the M1891 91/30 version goes for? I'm probably gonna end up trying to compare the rifle and carbine before I actually choose which one to buy (plus I think my mom might have a stroke if I bring home a carbine w/ a bayonet on the end, especially since she thinks 19 is too young to own any kind of guns)

 

Well a couple of the differences between the M38 and M44 is that the M44 weighs a little more and the bayonet isn't detachable. Its foldable.

 

Mosin Nagant Rifles at Impact Guns Home

The Armory: Mosin Nagant,mosin nagant rifle, mosin nagant m44,mosin nagant scope mount, mosin nagant part, mosin nagant scope,mosin nagant m44 carbine, mosin nagant stripper clip

Collecting and Shooting the Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 - HISTORY

 

If you think that price is high, wait till you see what the WWII Zeiss or Steiner Scopes go for? I saw one listed for sale on a militaria site a few months ago that was complete and great condition, and even had the metal can the piece came with-and the price was more than a rifle would cost.

Prices for this stuff, are really getting out of hand. :-(