Marine NCOs preferring the Springfield?

I remember stumbling upon this factoid several times- that when the M1 rifle was first introduced, many senior NCOs believed it to be not accurate enough and that it was a weapon that discouraged proper shooting.

Anyone know details about this?

 

WEAPONS OF THE WORLD WAR II MARINE

The U.S. rifle, cal. 30, M1 ​

The phrase "every Marine a rifleman" is more than just empty words. Marines have always taken pride in their proficiency with the service rifle. For most of World War II, the M1 rifle was the basic weapon of the infantry Marine. This rifle was adopted as standard by the Marine Corps on 5 November 1941, although the M1903 Springfield rifle continued in use in various roles throughout the war.​

(above) The M1 rifle was a gas-operated,

​

clip fed, aircooled, semi-automatic

shoulder weapon ​

Weight of the M1 rifle–9.5 pounds ​

Length w/o bayonet–43.6 inches​

Average rate of fire–30 rounds per minute​

Maximum effective range–500 yards ​

Method of loading–8 round clip ​

​

In November 1940 the Marine Corps conducted a competitive trial of the M1, M1903, the Johnson and Winchester rifles. This test was carried out at Marine Corps Base, San Diego by 40 experienced Marines who had recently qualified as expert riflemen or sharpshooters. LtCol "Red Mike" Edson, among the best shooters in the Corps, was one of the senior officers assigned to the test board.

Over 12,000 rounds were fired during four weeks of shooting. At various phases, the test rifles were submerged in salt water, packed with mud, sprayed with fresh water to simulate rain, sprinkled with sand and exposed to heavy dust. They were also evaluated for ease of maintenance, infantry drill, and firing with fixed bayonets.
The test board concluded with the following evaluation: "It became increasingly evident as the tests progressed that the M1 rifle was superior to the other semi-automatic rifles. Although it failed on some of the abuse tests, it was in general much more reliable in mechanical operation, in ruggedness, and in freedom from repairs than either the Johnson or Winchester rifles… The Marine Corps feels that its tests conclusively proved that the M1 rifle is the most satisfactory semi-automatic rifle available." ​

Early in the war when Marines landed on Guadalcanal, they were equipped with the Springfield rifle. Army units with the M1 also took part in this campaign. The M1 quickly earned a reputation as an easy to maintain, reliable, and ​

hard-hitting rifle.
Marines quickly became adept at scrounging M1s from
their Army brethren. The picture at left shows a Marine of HQ Co, 3/8 on Guadalcanal in late 1942. He is holding an M1 rifle that was very likely acquired from an Army unit
on the island by "moonlight requisitioning." ​

Photo courtesy Les Groshong ​

In November 1941, the Marine Corps classified the M1 as the standard service rifle. Marines resisted the M1 at first because they had used the Springfield rifle for almost 30 years. The Springfield was held in high regard because of its long range accuracy and reliable functioning under the harshest battlefield conditions. Throughout World War II the Army Ordnance Department was responsible for acquiring small arms for both the Army and Marine Corps. It was not until after the end of the campaign for Gauadalcanal that sufficient M1s became available to equip all front line Marine units with this rifle.
The M1 gave the Marine rifleman superior firepower against his Japanese opponent. It was dependable and easy to maintain in the field. An M1-equipped Marine rifle platoon could sustain the same volume of fire as a company armed with bolt-action rifles.
Operation of the M1 was simple. Ammunition was loaded via an eight round clip into the top of the receiver. When the rifleman fired his last round, the bolt locked to the rear and the empty clip ejected with a distinctive ping sound. To reload, the rifleman simply pushed a loaded clip into the top of the receiver. Once the clip was fully inserted, it would unlock the bolt, which stripped off the first round to load in the chamber.​

(left) The empty enbloc clip ejects from the receiver of an M1 rifle. At the same moment, the bolt locks back, enabling the Marine to quickly reload.​

Still image from a USMC combat camera film ​

A common problem experienced by new shooters was "M1 thumb." This occurred when the rifleman failed to quickly remove his thumb off the clip as he was loading. When the bolt unlocked, it could smash his thumb against the front of the ejection port. This only happened once for most new shooters.
Although the M1 had some minor deficiencies, it was without question the finest service rifle of World War II. Marines who carried it in combat swore by its reliability, simplicty and hard-hitting firepower. It went on the serve the Marine Corps in the Korean War, and through many years of the Cold War until it was retired from service in the early 1960s. ​

(Left) Guam-August 3rd, 1944. Sgt Carrol Williford, 3rd MarDiv, in a ruined chapel with his M1 rifle near the Asan beachhead. The M1 was the standard service rifle from 1941 through the end of the war. ​

USMC Photo ​

"On record day we fired sixty-six shots, all but ten of them rapid fire, at targets two hundred, three hundred, and five hundred yards away. Each shot was worth a maximum of five points, for a bull's-eye. Riflemen could qualify in three categories: marksman, sharpshooter, and–very rare, requiring 305 points out of a possible 330–expert rifleman... My M1 was zeroed in to perfection. I had steady hands; I could hold my breath indefinitely, steadying the muzzle; I could fold my right ankle under my buttocks for kneeling shots; and I had 20/10 vision... I was also clever in adjusting my sling... t can be extended and looped around the left arm, locking the butt to the right shoulder. Record day was clear and windless. I hardly missed anything. My score was 317."

​

Goodbye Darkness–A Memoir of the Pacific War

William Manchester ​

(Left) Pfc Paul Ison of the 1st MarDiv moving under fire at Death Valley, Okinawa–Spring 1945. He is equipped with the M1 rifle. USMC Photo ​

Riflemen of the 24th Marines at Camp Pendleton in late-1943 carrying M1 rifles and wearing the field marching pack on a field problem. USMC Photo
​

 

Sorry dupe posting

 

I think it's an issue of teaching an old dog new tricks. You need to consider that the NCO's, when the Garand was adopted, had spent a lot of time packing the 'o3. The 03 is an "Imortal Weapon" in the Marine Corps, it is part of the History and Legend. I mean thats the weapon that was so effective against the Hun at Belleau Wood, and the Boxers at Shang Hai, and the rebels in Haiti, etc. I think the only weapon the Marine Corps was happy to be done with was the M16A1.

Brad

 

So did Ridgeway, apparently. The general was unusual in insisting to carry a shoulder weapon on the field and it was a Springfield.

 

The fact that the old-line Marine NCO's resisted the transition to from the '03 Springfield to the M-1 Garand undoubtedly had more to do with being familiar with, and liking, the reliable and effective old '03, than any real deficiency in the newer M-1. Both were superb rifles as far as accuracy and reliability went, and both were extremely effective. However, anyone who has ever carried a rifle for any length of time will realize that personal preferences can be quite strong and may easily override empirical evidence.

I have a book titled "Ordnance Went Up Front" by Roy Dunlap. Dunlap was a successful national match competitor and master gunsmith serving in the US Army. He managed to serve not only in North Africa where he was able to examine captured Italian and German firearms of all types, but also in the Philippines where he did the same with Japanese small arms.

When Dunlap was ordered to the Philippines in 1944, he was slated to go ashore in one of the assault echelons at Leyte. As an ordnance NCO, he could have chosen to carry virtually any US weapon he desired; the weapon he chose was the '03 Springfield. He explained that he favored the Springfield because it was familiar to him, he could consistently hit any target out to about 700 yards with it, and it was the easiest weapon then being issued to keep reasonably clean.

 

Marine Corps conducted a competitive trial of the M1, M1903, the Johnson and Winchester rifles.

Is this the Winchester 70 or similar Masuer bolt action?

Possibly the perceived tendancy for M1 shooters to droop due to the muzzle heaviness was noticed by NCO instructors, it would probably be common in new recruits I'm sure NCO marksmen would be able to correct for this.

 

The M1 is probably one of the best small arms of the 20th century, i have never heard a bad word about it. In fact even the military liked it so much when it came time to field a new rifle in the 1960's, what they adopted was essentially a 20 round M1 with full auto capability (that is, the M-14).

 

but the m-14 covered everything support weapon rifle ect:.