Market Garden succeeds

I think it is relevant that had Market Garden succeeded, Bradley would launch an all-out attack with two Armies (Ninth and First) on the Ruhr, with the 21st Army guarding his left. They would attack through the corridor the Schlieffen plan exploited as its line of march. If the Allies took the Ruhr the German army dies.

Market-Garden failed because of both flawed execution and its stint of incredible bad luck. The 82d lost no less than three major river crossings to German demolition teams by seconds.

To change the outcome of the battle without rewriting the plan, I pin the blame on XXX Corps. Horrocks latter would admit that had the importance of securing attacking positions for Market-Garden been made clear to him, he would have drove the XXX Corps much harder before the operation.

Another flaw was the XXX Corps' lack of immediate engineer support when they most needed it. Engineers should have been placed at the point of the XXX Corps's advance, not behind.

 

was simpsons u.s.9th army in tthe line at this time?.cheers.

 

According to Wikipedia (I know it's not always reliable but seems to concur with other sources on the net) the US Ninth army was deployed on the 5th September 1944 and tasked with clearing the port city of Brest which took 15 days. It was then moved east to the frontline but I assume Market Garden would have been well under way by the time the move was complete.

 

i have tried before to find out xxx corps exact O.O.B..perhaps now maybe a good time to help eachother out,i will start gents.please add or correct.
Guards armd div.
43rd inf div.
50th inf div.
8th armd bde.
Independant units.
Household cavalry regt.
64th medium regt.R.A..cheers.

 

In addition to the ones you mentioned Pegasus archives list these divisions also attached to XXX Corps during Market Garden.

157th Infantry Brigade
Royal Netherlands Princess Irene Brigade

 

i think the 44 R.T.R.was attached from the 4th ind.armd bde?.

 

The activation was on 15th September 1945.

Since Monty was well aware of the expected time and place of the Ninth's activation, it is my assumption that the Ninth indeed would be deployed to exploit the gap to be cracked open by Market-Garden with the First.

According to Monty's single thrust plan sent to Bradley, his intention was to throw both 21 and 12 Army Groups sans Third Army at North. In the letter he writes: "After crossing the Seine, 12 and 21 Army Groups should keep together as a solid mass of some forty divisions which would be so strong that it need fear nothing. This force would move north-eastwards."

On 23 August Montgomery conferred with Eisenhower on the planned offensive, Eisenhower "offered Montgomery his decision that Hodge's First Army should move on the right flank of 21st Army Group in the offensive towards Ruhr". (262, R. F. Weigley, Einsenhower's Lieutenants) If Ninth was going to be activated on Bradley's left--and Bradley's expectation that the it will be given to Monty's operational control anticipated this--I do believe that the Rhur offensive would be joined by the Ninth.

 

Such a shame that they didn't.

 

is it not true that monty offered to serve under bradley in the single thrust plan?,cheers.

 

I read today that the 7th medium regt.R.A.was an integral part of XXXcorps Arty,cheers.

 

Yes Monty was willing to do anything to avoid the broadfront stalemate.

 

At one point, rather late in the game. I'd have to dig through my books to sort that out. He broached the single thrust idea to Eisenhower several times exactly which date he made the specific offer I cant recall. His arguments were sometimes tied to his other hope, that Eisenhower would appoint a 'Ground Commander' for the Allied forces. Ike had operated under that arraigment in the Mediterrainian and thought it unstatisfactory. He prefered to talk directly to his army group commanders without a extra HQ and Field Marshall hovering about. He also thought a 'ground commanders HQ staff would be redundant to his own SHAEF HQ.

 

would that be the meeting of 23/8/44 at montys tactical H.Q,?.cheers.

 

walter beddell smith was also at this meeting too,i think?,cheers.

 

Who was ground forces commander in N. Africa? Who was in Italy? The reason why Monty suggested that there be such a person was in N.Africa and Italy the Army group commander (Alex) was to busy sorting out the day to day stuff (including the bickering between various commanders) to lift his eyes and make the long term thinking, and seeing the big picture.

 

i think the assumption of monty hanging about ike,s s.h.a.e.f hq is quite wrong.Monty for example was offered to take part in the victory parade when paris was liberated,but instead kept his hq moving north of paris.
The canadian and british were trying to capture the channel ports,and capture airfields in north france,but most importantly destroy the v1 launch sites.gen de guigand was montys c.o.s,his job was to keep s.h.a.e.f informed,and keep Monty informd of orders from above.i think that Monty and Ike diid not meet as many times as most people think?,after operation overlord anyway.,cheers.

 

remember patton was bradleys c.o.in the med,but became one of bradleys loyal army commanders in 12th army group.there is no reason why imo monty could not serve under bradley even if he was bradleys C.O.during the normandy victory,cheers.

 

All true, the British Army was lacking new recurits and fresh troops to fill the ranks of the Armies in Europe after the Normandy landings.

Even English conscripts were sent to scottish divisons to replace wounded and dead troops.

The 1st ABn Div was used, because it was available.....to an army lacking reserves...?

stuart

 

I think that's about right; given the insanely small amount of time Montgomery gave his subordinates to plan and execute Market-Garden, 1st Airborne was the only formation available. A few more months and 6th Airborne might have been able to take over the role, and a few more weeks and 17th Airborne might have been able to. But with only a few days, 1st Airborne was all there was.

 

Alexander was sent to the Tunisia area for that purpose. Eisenhower was susposed to be in charge of all air, ground, and naval forces involved in the battle for Tunisia. Alex had the ground forces, and some US general had the combined airforces. This was in addition to other HQ in the Mediterrainian area controling other fleets, airforces, and ground units not directly involved in the Tunisian campaign. Eisenhower was not the only one who thought it too many HQ. Ditto for the Sicilian campaign.

Alexanders inability to "lift his eyes" was noted by others. More than one thought it a personality defect, a inability to think as far ahead as a armygroup commander should. His talent seemed to have been stronger at the operational level.