Masons helped cause the Fall of France?

Communists??? Time period after the beginning of the start of Barbarossa...

 

NAZI PERSECUTION OF FREEMASONRY

 

No, in my humble opinion, to be freemason is incompatible with be marxist. Just take a look to this list from wikypedia

List of Freemasons

three names:

George Washington. General, Politician, and First President of the United States. Initiated in Fredericksburg VA, Past Master of Alexandria Lodge No. 22, Virginia

Franklin Delano Roosevelt, U.S. President. Holland Lodge No. 8, New York[34]

John Wayne.

 

A comparison between the pre-war French masonry and the masons in the US is impossible ;while the US masonry is political neutral and is something as the Rotary and not hostile to religion,the masonry in France was the arch-enemy of the catholic church and very engaged in politics;the French masonry dominated the radical party,who dominated the French politics.
Btw:the communists were very hostile to the masonry .

 

Absolutly correct! impossible according to the freemason statutes as well as being defined as the capitalistic enemy of communism.

Exeption in a certain way is Cuba with a strong free mason lodge. However Cuba also defines itself not as a Marxist state.

Regards
Kruska

 

They were enemies of Franco (very similar to Petain) but you couldn´t see them neither in the comunist or in the anarchist.

I have highlighted these three names as a joke.

 

Blimey Ljad...masons must be different everywhere...Here in UK catholics were reviled by masons...maybe not individually but as an orginisation....My mum used to clean a building for them...She was physically marched out of the temple when she cleaned that out as no women allowed..sexist too...Certainly no lover of communists in uk masons at that time...I'm going back to 70's 80's and may have changed somewhat. But then thats probably because of civilised laws being brought in as to exclusion of memberships etc.

 

As the Vichy were the puppets of Hitler's Nazis in reality, and they had an attitude about the Masons, perhaps it isn't so much what Petain believed, or anything like that but what the puppet masters back in Berlin wished him to say?

 

In MHO, The masonery was a liberal and (in the continent) anti-clerical movement, and many of them joined the resistance. From Wiky:

History of Freemasonry in France

 

Sorry, got to take you to task on that one mate. There are NO rules against Catholics joining the Craft- otherwise there would be no
Grand Lodge of Ireland (http://www.irish-freemasons.org/), or France (http://www.gldf.org/) , or Italy (http://www.granloggiaregolareitalia.org/en/en_index.html) .
No rules against women being in the Temple either, as that would rule out the Eastern Star Worthy Matron's Page Falkirk Chapter 35 OES , which both sexes can join. As all British lodges are used as social function suites open to the public at weekends, there would be no point banning females.
Your old dear probably fell foul of the lodge twat- we've all got one.

 

Certainly liberal up to a point, but not anti-clerical. One of the fundamental qualifications for membership is belief in a God or higher being. That's why Marxists and Communists are excluded.

 

i
I believe women were only allowed into the temple quite recently in the English side, in last 20 odd years or so. It would be interesting to see if that is indeed the case.

As for the catholics, I'm not talking world wide I'm talking England. All is different now, but I think you'll find in England the history of the masons towards catholic faith is not a good one. Of course even that has changed now. My brother is one, hes catholic, well born one, but probably more to do with him being a copper which I believe has constraints on now also.

 

Although the local tw...t may be a good enough reason for blackballing catholocs at some lodges. The catholic church after all excomunicates catholic members. Or it did, dont know if it still does. This has given rise to quite a few statintg they were discriminated against when trying to join the boys club.

 

Since the adoption of Anderson's constitution in 1723, it has been accepted as fact by regular Masons that only men can be made Masons. Most Grand Lodges do not admit women because they believe it would violate the ancient Landmarks. While a few women, such as Elizabeth Aldworth, were initiated into British speculative lodges prior to 1723,[59] officially regular Freemasonry remains exclusive to men.

While women cannot join regular lodges, there are (mainly within the borders of the United States) many female orders associated with regular Freemasonry and its appendant bodies, such as the Order of the Eastern Star, the Order of the Amaranth, the White Shrine of Jerusalem, the Social Order of Beauceant and the Daughters of the Nile. These have their own rituals and traditions, but are founded on the Masonic model. In the French context, women in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries had been admitted into what were known as "adoption lodges" in which they could participate in ritual life. However, men clearly saw this type of adoption Freemasonry as distinct from their exclusively male variety. From the late nineteenth century onward, mixed gender lodges have met in France.

In addition, there are many non-mainstream Masonic bodies that do admit both men and women or are exclusively for women. Co-Freemasonry admits both men and women,[60] but it is held to be irregular because it admits women. The systematic admission of women into International Co-Freemasonry began in France in 1882. In more recent times, women have created and maintained separate Lodges, working the same rituals as the all male regular lodges. These Female Masons have founded lodges around the world, and these Lodges continue to gain membership.

wiki of course..

 

The Historian,

Anti-clerical doesn't mean atheist. It is a hostile opinion towards ecclesiastics such as priests with power to define doctrines or interfere with public office. Some of Martin Luther's doctrines were seen as deeply anti-clerical. [Penchant mode off]

 

I know, mate. But Masons are not anti-clerical.

 

Well, England is a separate constitution from both Scotland and Ireland, so you could be right.
In America, the Masons are very much into the family thing, so although the lodges don't function as social clubs for the public, family do's are the norm.
But I'm pulling the thread off-topic, I'm afraid.