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MEDAL OF HONOR...OR WEAPON !

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by WALT, Apr 16, 2002.

  1. WALT

    WALT Member

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    I UST WANTED TO AIR MY DISCUST ABOUT THE INCEDENT AT THE AIRPORT ABOUT A MOUNTH AGO...NAVY ACE "JOE FOSS" (26 OR 29 JAPANESE PLANES SHOT DOWN)WAS DETAINED AND HASSLED BECAUSE HE HAD HIS MEDAL OF HONOR IN HIS POCKET. (HE WAS ON HIS WAY TO WEST POINT TO GIVE A TALK TO THE CADETS} THE FOOLS AT THE AIR PORT DID NOT KNOW WHAT IT WAS, AND CONSIDERED IT WEAPON. THE METAL WAS PRESENTED TO HIM BY F.D.R.IAND I BELIVE IT WAS INGRAVED ON THE BACK SAYING SO.JOE I THINK JOE SAID HE IS NOW 86, AND THESE CLOWNS GAVE HIM A HARD TIME FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR....WHERE WERE THE N. GAURD PEOPLE. DIDNT THEY KNOW WHAT IT WAS EIGHTER.....AW...HOW SOON THEY FORGET.
     
  2. Ron

    Ron Member

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    wow thats awful! :mad:
    How in the world did they think it was a weapon! sheesh...the medal of honor no less too...it is so easily recognizable!
     
  3. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Believe me--its possible. The screeners who were working as screeners befor ethe fed govt stepped in and made them employees--for the most part--being underpaid people--a company gets the quality of people it pays for. $6.00 an hour = a not very dilligent employee who wants to do their job. I cant really blame them either for such an attitude as the former way underpaid screeners.

    Now that they are Federalized, and making more much more than about $8,000 a year--now its more like $30,000 a year (one heck of a salary jump) trouble is, is that the same person with the same poor attitude, is now making that $30 grand a year, plus the BEST medical care, plus the best benefits a person can get. 12 days vacation--12 days workmans comp and 12 days sick pay a year.

    A person could save up for a year and take a complete month off (like I did when I worked for the state govt) I spent my entire month in Germany and loved every second.

    Another bad thing about having low-lifes as fed employees--is that not only are they wellpaid employees and still low-lifes, but that its next to impossible to get one fired.

    Cases in point (just listen to the Neal Boorts radio talkshow and you will be enlightened about a few former low-paid screeners, who are now throwing their authority around to make it very difficult on passengers.

    Im putting in for that job myself, and I wouldnt dream of acting stupid like some of these individuals.
     
  4. Smoke286

    Smoke286 Member

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    Typical though, most people today have no knowlege of what happened 25 years ago, let alone 50
     
  5. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Yep--I totally agree with you Billy--and thats why I do hope that forums like this is, will continue to thrive and educate those who know zilch on what really happened. I HOPE they will come here to learn the truths instead of getting all their knowledge in NEW textbooks which are nothing but leftist BS, and i hope they do not get the rest of their so called "knowledge" from network news agencies--where the leftist UNfortunately rule the day. :( :( :(
     
  6. Mustang

    Mustang Member

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    I think that the Naval Medal of Honor looks different from the one that C. Evans wears too. ;)
     
  7. mott5ranch

    mott5ranch Member

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    People do not know what a "Medal of Honor" looks like. As a teacher, I can tell you that the history books do not mention WWII. In junior high there are four pages dedicated to WWII. They (the publishers) mention Pearl Harbor, D-Day, and Hiroshima....that's it! The next three pages are about the holocaust. Great perspective, huh? It's great when one owns all the media in the US. Then one can rewrite history as what was the main point of the war. Give me a break!
     
  8. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    :mad: I was very pissed off when I first read this thread and I was even angrier when I saw a site with a picture of the old man with his medal of honour... How can people be so stupid! It looks more like a piece of jewellery than a weapon!

    And Gary, I hate that view of WWII, which is unfortunately the one that 90% of the people have. Pearl Harbour, D-day, A-boms and Holocaust. What the hell is that?!!! :mad:
     
  9. Mustang

    Mustang Member

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    I agree Friedrich, Matt, how can people be so naive when millions of people died. Probably including more than 1 relative.

    Besides that, airplanes back then were a work of art. Or atleast the Mustang was. :D
     
  10. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    WWI planes were cuter! :D [​IMG]
     
  11. Mustang

    Mustang Member

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    WWI planes were too frail and......... UGLY for me. You've got to admit that the P-51 was beautiful.
     
  12. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Thanks Mustang...

    Also, the car and the fighter that bears that name as well--are my favorites--I LOVE the sleek lines of a P-51, and of a 1965 car.

    [ 06 October 2002, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]
     
  13. Mustang

    Mustang Member

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    Great minds think alike right Carl. ;)
     
  14. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Hey, guys: Does anybody have some link related to this stupid incident? I would like to read more on this MoH recipient and this horrific act of ignorance... Any help will be apprecieted. ;)
     
  15. Panzerknacker

    Panzerknacker New Member

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    Friedrich-go to www.homeofheroes.com and I think the article is on the first page. If not the link will be. Hope this helps...
     
  16. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Hello Mustang. As The Fonz used to say: "Correctamundo" ;)

    [ 14 October 2002, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]
     
  17. Mustang

    Mustang Member

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    Thanks Carl. Or as the Spanish say,"Gracias". :D ;)
     
  18. Deep Web Diver

    Deep Web Diver Member

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    http://www.snopes.com/military/medal.htm

    Claim: The Medal of Honor carried by a World War II hero aroused suspicion among airport security forces.

    Status: True.

    Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2002]

    * * *

    "They just kept passing it around there were eight or nine or ten of them who handled it before it was over," he said.

    "They had found it in my pocket at the airport, and they thought it was suspicious. It's shaped like a star, and they were looking at the metal edges of it, like it was a weapon. I asked for it back, but they kept handing it to each other and inspecting it. I was told to move to a separate area.

    "I told them -- just turn it over. The engraving on the back explains everything. But they thought they must have something potentially dangerous here.

    "I told them exactly what it was -- I said, 'That's my Congressional Medal of Honor.´"

    The man relating that story is retired Gen. Joe Foss, 86. His experience last month in Arizona at the international airport in Phoenix -- may be the ultimate symbol of the out-of-kilter times we are going through. We are so afraid of terrorists in our midst that what happened to Foss is not only believable, but perhaps even inevitable:

    The Congressional Medal of Honor will be taken from its recipient because it looks vaguely ominous.

    I spoke with Foss because I wanted to hear it from him directly. He told me that he holds no animosity about the incident -- "I'm just as interested in defeating the terrorists as anyone is, I promise you that" and that he is mostly sad that no one knew what the Medal of Honor was.

    Foss was awarded the medal by President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II after shooting down 26 enemy planes as a Marine fighter pilot in solo combat in the Pacific. He grew up in South Dakota -- after the war he would become governor of that state -- and took flying lessons as a young man, then went to war.

    He lives in Scottsdale, Ariz., and when he travels he is patted down in airports instead of going through the metal detectors, because of a heart pacemaker. At the airport in Phoenix, he said, he was being searched manually and he put his jacket through the X-ray machine. A couple of things caught the attention of the screeners -- rightly so.

    Foss has a key chain made out of a dummy bullet, with a hole drilled through it to make it evident it is harmless; he also carries a small knife/file with the Medal of Honor Society's insignia on it. The screeners took both of them from Foss -- traveling during these nervous days with items that look like bullets, or with even a small knife, will, and should, invite scrutiny. Even if you're 86. Even if you're a war hero.

    That's not what frustrated him. The screeners, he said, allowed him to mail the key chain and the little knife back to his home from the airport. But for 45 minutes, he estimated, he was passed from person to person, made to remove his boots and tie and belt and hat three different times, and prevented from boarding his flight (he was eventually allowed on) because the security personnel, he said, had misgivings about his Medal of Honor.

    (America West Airlines, in whose terminal in Phoenix the incident allegedly took place, said through a spokeswoman shortly after the misunderstanding that the airline's objective is to ensure safety and security for all passengers and employees.)

    "I want you to know," Foss told me, "that I don't go around wearing my Medal of Honor, or carrying it with me. The only reason I had it with me on this flight was that I was supposed to give a speech to a class at the United States Military Academy at West Point, and I thought the medal was something the cadets might be interested in seeing."

    I asked him what he remembered about being presented the Congressional Medal of Honor. "I was right fresh out of combat when I was called to the White House," he said. "FDR was behind his desk, and he pinned the medal on my uniform. He said it was for actions above and beyond the call of duty.

    "I was nervous, being in the presence of the president. I think I may have been more nervous there than I was in combat. My wife and mother were with me -- it was quite a day. I think President Roosevelt called me 'young feller.'"

    After the White House ceremony, Foss had his photograph taken with the medal -- the nation's highest military honor for valor in action -- on his uniform. That photo was the full front cover of Life magazine, the issue of June 7, 1943; the cover caption was: "Captain Foss, U.S.M.C. America's No. 1 Ace."

    And now, almost 60 years later, the Medal of Honor was being handed from one skeptical security screener to another in the Phoenix airport, while Foss, at 86, took his boots and belt off as ordered.

    "I wasn't upset for me," he said. "I was upset for the Medal of Honor, that they just didn't know what it even was. It represents all of the guys who lost their lives -- the guys who never came back. Everyone who put their lives on the line for their country. You're supposed to know what the Medal of Honor is."

    * * *

    Origins: On 11 January 2002, retired Marine Corps Gen. Joseph J. Foss of Scottsdale, Arizona, was attempting to board an America West flight bound for Arlington, Virginia, when airport security held him for 45 minutes while they debated what to do with a variety of suspect items he had about his person. This 86-year-old former governor of South Dakota was on his way to attend a National Rifle Association meeting and to speak to cadets at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, and he carried with him his Medal of Honor, as well as a Medal of Honor commemorative nail file and a dummy bullet which had been made into a key fob.

    Each of these items was regarded as a potential security risk by airport personnel: the bullet for being a bullet, the nail file for being a nail file (metal nail files are now banned on flights in the USA), and the Medal of Honor for being a suspicious five-pointed metal object that might have been a weapon (similar to the Japanese throwing discs known hira shuriken).

    After being repeatedly searched, Foss was allowed to board the plane with his Medal of Honor, but he had to mail the bullet and nail file home to himself. Foss' experience prompted the piece quoted above, which is the text of a Bob Greene article from the 24 February 2002 Chicago Tribune.

    Several columnists have since used this incident as the centerpiece of newspaper articles about the issues surrounding heightened air travel standards since September 11 because it highlights the problems inherent to new airport security measures. Where does a reasonable standard of protection leave off and lunacy begin? Granted, if bullets are on the banned list then passengers shouldn't attempt to bring them onboard, but should bullets which have been drilled and turned into key charms -- ornamental objects which clearly pose no threat to anyone -- be treated as if they were "real" bullets? And should a Medal of Honor -- the country's highest award for bravery -- even fleetingly be considered a possible threat to the safety of others?

    We shouldn't fault airport security officers for not recognizing a Medal of Honor on sight; not many people get to see one in their lives. But a closer examination by security personnel would have shown them what it was, and at that point in the proceedings they fell down on the job. Rather than treating an obviously cooperative passenger courteously and allowing him to explain what the suspect item was, they shuffled the general back and forth and required him to remove his boots, belt, hat, and tie -- several times each. The delay they subjected him to almost caused him to miss his flight. That is no way to treat any 86-year-old man, let alone a war hero and former governor.

    Had the situation been handled professionally, the general would have cleared the security checkpoint in all of five minutes, with most of that taken up by the manual search his pacemaker necessitated. Yes, his nail file and key-ring charm would have been taken from him because both these items are on the list of things one must not bring onto a plane. But the Medal of Honor should have been quickly vetted and returned to its owner, and its owner should have been treated respectfully throughout.

    [ 19 October 2002, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Crapgame ]
     
  19. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Gracias a todos vosotros, también. :D

    Thank to all of you guys, too! I have told that tale to many people and everybody, even if they don't know much about WWII they agree that it is a despicable act of ignorance!
     
  20. Panzerknacker

    Panzerknacker New Member

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    Yeah I mean like come on-you kind of assume that it isn't a weapon when you handle it. And they made him take his boots off-which he does with some difficutly normally!!!

    I mean-I believ in tightening security-but an 85 yr old man held for several hours!!!! COME ON...
    :mad:
     

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