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Merkel Apparently Fears Devastating Defeat of the Ukrainian Army

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Bundesluftwaffe, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    "Here are some in regards to dumb bombs:"

    Hoping not only are US ( keep wanting to say Allied ) bombs more accurate, the bombs themselves are lower yield, thus less collateral damage.
    Russian bombing is effective. Sledgehammer on a nail type thing.

    Thinking that we (Canada) now have to consult a string of lawyers before any military OK on a strike. Not sure the same thing happens in Russia...i dunno
     
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  2. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    I must admit the above left me puzzled. Why pro Putin and not pro Russia? Same with Assad and Syria?

    May I ask off the position you hold concerning Syria? What is your outlook of the entire Syrian campaign and Russia's involvement?

    According to a few high level experts Damascus was within weeks of falling. Had that occurred, who was it that was going to seize power?

    The Syrian crisis has been ongoing for 5 years now without a positive outlook in sight. If the US was in fact fighting terrorism in the region with hopes of stability, then how is it that Russia (with a much smaller military contingent by comparison) was able to accomplish in 5 months what the US along with her 90 nation coalition wasn't able to do in a year in a half?

    The Syrians are overwhelmingly supporting Russias actions in their country (and Irans). They are happier with the cease fire. That is all that matters.
     
  3. Karjala

    Karjala Don Quijote

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    Your questions were not aimed at me, but here are some answers anyway.

    Russia is Putin. Ordinary Russians are not asked nor allowed to have any other information on matters except Putin's propaganda. The same goes with Assad and Syria.

    The hole war in Syria was created because of the Putin's support to Assad. Without that Assad would have been long gone, Daesh wouldn't have any influence and the original conflict - created by Assad - wouldn't have turned into a war.

    To get peace now Assad must go. Most likely the power will then be somehow divided between the moderate opposition, the Kurds and some members of the ex-Assad regime.

    The Western bombings have been inefficient because of the extra care to avoid the collateral civilian casualties. The Russian policy is totally different: bomb everything and bomb a lot, never mind the civilians, or rather - bomb especially the civilians first. Seems to be more efficient - in helping the Syrian dictator.

    Your claim about the opinions of the Syrians is based on what?
     
  4. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Because it's pretty clear that neither Putin nor Assad are acting in the best interest of their respective countries.

    The Russians are propping up a bloody dictator/war criminal.

    If Damascus had fallen it's unclear who would have taken power much less who would have held it. Most likely Syria would have fractured to some extent with some regions under extremist control but for a relatively short period of time.

    The US was fighting a very limited action against Daesh with very strict ROEs. Russia is propping up the Assad regime. Look at the impact US air support has had in Iraq particularly in the Kurdish areas or indeed the Kurdish areas in Syria.

    Their is no evidence that I've seen that even a large minority of the Syrians are supporting Russia's actions (or Iran's) indeed the evidence to the contrary is quite strong. Certainly most would be happy with a cease fire that holds but the majority made it very clear that they were very much against the Assad regime.
     
  5. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    This is your opinion. All evidence point elsewhere. It wasn't Russia that started the war, created ISIS, essentially armed Al Nusra and then simply say and watched thesea groups terrorizing the country as they advanced on a legitimate government. The idea of replacing Assad with the Kurds and rebels is nothing more than fantasy. It didn't work in Iraq or Lybia and it wasn't going to work in Syria.
    Turkey would NEVER let the Kurds take over and virtually all of the moderate rebels have already switched back over to Assad for amnesty. Several groups have split from ISIS in Alepo and helping the government forces.

    Russia was the only country that received approval to militarily operate in Syria from the UN and Damascus.

    Your entire view of Russian democracy is wrong. I'm Russian and I have personally experienced it.

    Like it or not Russia stopped the war (for now) in 5 months. Something the West failed to do in over a year in a half. Russia stopped the war in Syria not start it.
     
  6. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Is this your opinion?

    NATO says differently

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/05/confidential-nato-report-praises-russias-superiority-in-syria/

    You familiar with Pinochet? Norreaga? How about Saddam himsel or Gaddafi? The West propped them up for years until they served their good and were disposed off. What's interesting is that every time the US gets involved its for the good but when Russia does its for the wrong reasons.

    Russia cease fire in Syria is a good thing.

    It may be unclear for you but for experts in very high places this is all too familiar with Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia. NATO topples Gaddafi and Iraq, how are these countries doing now? Russia is interested in stability. Yes, Russia has interest in Syria, so what? Russia has been adamant about one thing. You cannot defeat extremists in a country without the support of that countries federal services and institutions. This has been proven.

    How can anyone make such a gamble with people's lives is extraordinary. US foreign policy has been a failure of epic proportions for the last 15 years and all because the US makes decisions unilateraly without the UN or the country (which is invades).

    The US is currently bombing Syria (a sovereign state) so far. Who gave the US permission to bomb Syria?

    Is this a joke? The US was never fighting Daesh seriously. Daesh grew in number and territory under US bombardment. The US simply turned a blind eye on the terrorist elements as long as they were fighting Assad.

    That's because you haven't been looking hard enough. All the Alawites, Shias Orthodox Christian and All the Kurds and behind Russia. In fact the Kurds even have a official representative office in Moscow. No other country stands behind the Kurds like the Russia does. Even the Us is hesitant as to not anger Turkey (who is blackmailing all off Europe, great ally!)The Kurds and Russians go back several hundred years to Catherine the Grear.

    After five years of war against extremists, the people unitedly stand behind Assad. Even militias in Allepo have broken ranks with ISIS and stand with the government.

    Russia went into Syria with a clear objective. After 5 months the opposition has had enough. The ONLY moderates left in Syria are the Kurds and even they fight ISIS with Asad troops.
     
  7. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    "Russia, like Syria, says all opponents of Assad are terrorists."

    How far does this go?

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/01/russia-targeting-non-isis-groups-syria-airstrikes


    "Why is Saudi Arabia against Bashar Al Assad?"

    How far is Russia willing to go? Or are they just joking about the number of enemies.

    "government of Syria protects Shi'a interests in the region. The Saudi government, as a Sunni government, is not pleased with this."

    If this is true, all Sunni´s are also terrorists as Assad´s opponents.

    --------------

    I was just curious if Russia is just making a base for themselves in the Middle east but then again it will tie a lot of troops to keep that base. Was Putin forced to make peace in Ukraine to be able to have the war in Syria??
     
  8. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Merkel does not give a damn about the Ukraine : she fears a devastating defeat of her party in the elections of sunday in Rhineland-Palts, Baden-Würtemberg and Saksen-Anhalt .
     
  9. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Wrong argument coming from The Guardian

    1) SA is not fighting against Assad

    2) The war is not about Sunni against Shia :there are as much Shia fighting against Assad as Sunni fighting for Assad .
     
  10. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Couldn't be further from the truth. Russia has been cooperating with the Kurds and Christians from day one and brokered a deal with "Moderate" rebels who are included in the cease fire. As for Ukraine, Putin was/is holding all the cards and wasn't "forced" by anyone to do anything. Just as in Syria it was mainly Russia who brokered a cease fire and a road map to peace and reconciliation between the parties. People have begun protesting again, Ironically this time theyre demanding Poroshenkos resignation along with the NAZI prime minister Yats, who last I checked had an approval rating of less than 5%. As expected the front line is starting to wake up again. Victoria Nulands wet dream in Ukraine is beginning to unravel.
     
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  11. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Do you have a problem with English comprehension or are you deliberately trying to obscure things. Note at the beginning of the article the author states that he can't find the supposed source for this. Then he goes on to discuss the contents of a reportedly "secret" document. In any case the source above does not support your contention even if the document it discusses exists. If it does exist by the way it doesn't necessarily mean that that's what NATO says or that the individuals who reported on it understood what it was saying again if it does exist. Indeed the article seems to be essential reporting on the fact that the Russian ROE's and on the ground intelligence is making their attacks more effective vs their targets than the NATO ones. That's been widely acknowledged however it has nothing to do with the best interest of the Syrian populace.
     
  12. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Luckily for you I found the original unfortunately it's in German. Feel free to use "google translate" as a tool. You wanted the original, here it is good luck.

    http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/nato-geheimpapier-russland-ist-nato-kraeften-in-syrien-ueberlegen_id_5336051.html


    You go out of your way to discredit anything and everything good that comes out off Russia. Such Cold War mentality does nothing contructive. If you want to point your finger at Russia, it is your right but the burden of proof lays with you as well.

    If your are under the impression that Russia is doing more harm then good then please provide sources. It is not up to me to convince you that Syrians overwhelmingly support Russian actions. It is up to you to convince us that they don't. Innocent till proven guilty NOT guilty till proven innocent.

    https://www.quora.com/How-do-Syrians-feel-about-Russias-intervention-in-Syrias-war

    All reports out of Syria state just that.

    Interesting how out of my entire post you only chose to address the very first part....
    You do realize that unlike the US and its coalition, Russia got approval from the UN Security Council (which the US approved) don't you?!?!

    Who gave US permission to carry out military operations in Syria (a sovereign state)? Who is held accountable for illegal US military interventions around the world?
     
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  13. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Maybe Putin should concentrate on ISIS first...

    "The extremist also warns the Russian people that they are likely to face another defeat in reference their loss of occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980's and that their people are not even safe in their homeland.
    "We shall kill your children for every child you've killed here," he states. "And we will destroy your homes for each home you destroyed here."
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/12/02/isis-takes-aim-at-putin-with-videos-showing-russian-spy-beheading-threats-to.html
     
  14. Ilhawk

    Ilhawk New Member

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  15. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Yeah, invasion is imminent.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Ilhawk

    Ilhawk New Member

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    One of my favorite movies of all time! Enjoyed it more after doing considerable work in the former USSR. Funny thing is there was a hidden large amount of truth to the movie. My favorite parts are the Soviets asking for a bowwwwt in English and the storming of the airport. Can't imagine what my limited Russian sounds like.
     
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  17. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    If the Russians come their wives would first invade expensive shops, men would attack pubs to get beer and in the evening they would drink endless row of toasts to the late comrade Stalin. No reason to worry. The Russkies are an A-class tourists, at least these who have "earned" some Rubles.
     
  18. Ilhawk

    Ilhawk New Member

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    The ag tourists I've hosted here....wow...the so-called ugly American would be no competition. And they leave their wives at home. It is amazing what they try and get on container ships. And they already have their connections.... had to quit hosting...
     
  19. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Here in Slovenia, we have an "invasion" of Russian tourists in luxury hotels and they come with their extraordinary beautiful wives. They are more wasteful than Arab sheikhs. Hoteliers hope that the "invasion" will be permanent.
    PS:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Ilhawk

    Ilhawk New Member

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    put this in wrong place.
     

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