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Merkel Apparently Fears Devastating Defeat of the Ukrainian Army

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Bundesluftwaffe, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Your sources use the words “potential” and “likely”.... There is no official report from the UN on what happened.
     
  2. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    How do you know this was a gas attack? Not to mention that it is well know that the Jihadis also possessed such weapons as discovered in liberated Aleppo. Why was Syria bombed 1 day before inspectors from the OPCW entered the country to investigate?
     
  3. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Russia released their satellite imagery to the UN immediately. The US has yet release its satellite imagery.
     
  4. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Because the creation of an International Tribunal by the UN was vetoed, by....Russia?!? Whoddathunk?
     
  5. green slime

    green slime Member

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    But satellite imagery is not what was requested. Radar was.
     
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  6. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Again, your sources are not the official conclusion of the investigation and all use the words “potential” and “likely” this is a far cry from “definitive” which is what is needed in such a tragedy. Please do not pass them off as such. The “official” conclusion does not place blame on Russia or the Russian president as was the case in Western media.

    As for “Vetoes” numerically, the US has used more of them than Russia has.
     
  7. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Speaking strictly from memory, Russian has show both. The US has shown none. Why?
     
  8. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    The results were as definitive as one could possibly expect given the Russian disinformation campaign. All the hard evidence and most of the circumstantial evidence pointed in one direction. The smoke screens Russia through up, most of which were soon shot down, not with standing. Indeed they point to much the same thing. "None is so blind as he who will not see"
     
  9. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Except this has no bearing on the matter. Russia had originally agreed to the tribunal in 2014, but in 2015, they were the lone veto.

    Why are they stonewalling?

    Who are they protecting?

    Although, I believe we all know the answers to those questions...
     
  10. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Definitive? What is your definition? The official conclusion placed no blame on the Russian Govt. or it’s president. What “smoke screens”? Which were shot down? Why is Russia somehow solely responsible and or needs to prove her innocence?
     
  11. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    I’m afraid I don’t remember the contents of that particular ordeal specifically. I do remember the veto was in regards to the investigation not being complete?
     
  12. green slime

    green slime Member

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    Again, they are official; I provided links to the Dutch JIT reports. It is quite clear to everyone, where the blame lies. Trying to obfuscate is your perogative.

    Re Vetoes: Except not. Look at the UN site. Russia has the vast majority in modern time 22 (since the end of the Cold War, 1990) vs 17 for the US. If you want to include all the vetoes from the start you'll find that the USSR stood for the first 64 (no one else vetoed anything until 1955)... and then another 33 until 1990. So the USSR and it's successor state Russia win the jackpot with 119 so far vs USAs 79:
    Research Guides: Security Council - Quick Links: Vetoes
     
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  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Well it's clear to anyone with an open mind that Russia had a part in it. Based on the posts made by the separatist the decision to shoot down the airliner was there's or at least local Russians (i.e, Moscow was not involved at that point). That the Russians used their veto, smoke screenes, and whatever else they could to prevent themselves and their clients from being named is undeniable. What "smoke screens"???? You were promoting some yourself such as that a Ukranian plane actually shot down the airliner. This was pointed out to be impossible within hours of it being promulgated yet the Russian media (and you) continued to push it for days and weeks and I certainly never saw a retraction. Then there was the fallacious information about the missile and the lack of comments on the photos that showed the launcher entering the Ukraine and leaving shortly after the shoot down. No point arguing with a "believer" though or some one from Russia's 50cent army.
     
  14. green slime

    green slime Member

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    No, it was in regards to opening an International Tribunal, but the Russian Federation vetoed because Russians claimed the investigation was not impartial. They also protested that previous tribunals have been expensive. Finally, they claimed a lack of legal precedent. In other words, they were delaying tactics. A few states abstained, because they felt the investigation was not then complete, but that was not the gist of the Russian protest.
     
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  15. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Huh? Is that what Pravda or RT told you?

    Regretfully, you memory is in error. Russia vetoed the setting up of a UN Tribunal to investigate the cause of the crash of MH17.
     
  16. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Spoke to soon of the vetos. I forgot about the recent Syria ones. You’re right.

    As for the report... I believe the only official blame was placed on Ukraine for not closing her skies in a conflict/war zone. Families of victims are suing Ukraine.
     
  17. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Perhaps everyone with an open mind who quickly pointed the finger at Russia prior to any sort of investigation didn’t have their minds fully open? :D

    Promoting? Haha I’m afraid not. I just as others presented a source. I’m afraid I don’t remember “missile” and “lack of comments” sorry. A lot was being said that’s for sure.

    Retraction? Two can play that game. Quite a few major stories in the West perhaps deserve that honor as well. The stories simply disappeared... quite a few.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  18. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    We will agree to disagree friend.
     
  19. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    The investigation of the crash has been complete. No one stopped it.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  20. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    It has?

    Curious?

    What was the finding of the UN tribunal? Russia was still blocking an international tribunal as of mid-2017.
    MH17 suspects to be prosecuted in the Netherlands after Russia blocks international tribunal

    As to the Dutch findings...Those are well known.
    However, the wheels of justice do seem to turn very slowly.
    https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...clears-way-for-mh17-trials-in-the-netherlands
     

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