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Merkel Apparently Fears Devastating Defeat of the Ukrainian Army

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Bundesluftwaffe, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Takao, thanks for the better explanation, got my wars wrong. Any war seems to greatly increase the chances of accidental incidents. I vaguely recall an incident in the cold war in which a Soviet sub and a US fleet carrier tried to occupy the same space at the same time causing the sub to emergency surface. The story said neither was aware of the other. . I felt this a bit farfetched but one never knows. Do you remember this and was what I recall accurate. ?

    I do recall the Stark attack. and the Israeli attack on our intelligence gathering ship. the USS Liberty during the 6 day's War.. I found it hard to believe ., sorry italics just popped up on their own, they would deliberately attack a US ship but I had no good information at the time and they were in the middle of a quick moving war. Would like to know more from you about that one too. Many US personnel felt it was deliberate. I could not figure out to what end.

    Gaines
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    That would be the USS Kitty Hawk vs a Victor I one night in 1984. Circumstances vary as to the Victor's actions; It was at periscope depth when hit, it was in the process of surfacing, or it had just surfaced. Given the visible damage(a diagonal crease across the deck) to the submarine, it was either at periscope depth or was in the process of surfacing. Also, the Kitty Hawk never called General Quarters or sound collision alarm, so it is doubtful that the Kitty Hawk knew she was there. The escorts had stopped tracking the Victor about three hours before collision, and the Kitty Hawk had landed her aircraft about two hours prior - although she may have still had a helo in the air(another question would be if the helo was dipping her sonar or not). So, I would doubt the the carrier knew the sub was there...She likely knew it was in the vicinity, just not directly in front of her.

    The you also have the Japanese fishing school ship Ehime Maru and the submarine USS Greenville, where the submarine surfaced right into the Japanese ship.
    Ehime Maru and USS Greeneville collision - Wikipedia

    As to the USS Liberty...That is just a one giant can of worms. Cases can be made for each side.
    How much do you want to know? The 11 part JAG investigation (as well as the USS Vincennes/Iran Air Flight 655) can be found here: JAG Manual Investigations | U.S. Navy JAG Corps
     
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  3. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Thank you for your knowledgeable insights. I have a long time interest is such incidents. They often seem improbable on the surface, no pun intended, but circumstances arise that create them. Not unlike the old firehouse analogy of days, weeks and months of boredom interrupted by periods of mayhem and terror. Our destroyers of the Pacific fleet might fit into that category..

    I thought the Ehime Maru case was particularly sad but agree the truth about the USS Liberty may never be known. Not that civilian lives are any more important than military ones.

    I shall now go and read all your kind links!

    Gaines
     
  4. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    There were also some active fire being exchanged between Iranian and US forces at the time. I linked a reference in post 568 above.
     

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