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MTB or S-Boat, which would you command?

Discussion in 'Surface and Air Forces' started by JimboHarrigan2010, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. JimboHarrigan2010

    JimboHarrigan2010 Member

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    I'd take a late war S-Boat, it's fast,manuverable,well protected and well armed. The MTB has speed for its armour and in my opinion not as well armed as it's German counterpart.
     
  2. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    A Fairmile D is possibly better armed than a Schnellboot though not as fast, anything else is a non starter, including most MGBs (and I will still pick the Lurssen in any kind of seas).
    IMO the german hull design and fast diesels were better than the allied boats.
     
  3. harolds

    harolds Member

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    I have read that when John F. Kennedy visited West German he was shown a restored S-boat. he was very impressed and felt it was much superior to the craft he commanded.
     
  4. Carronade

    Carronade Ace Patron  

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    Most S-boote were rated around 43 knots, and they were better able than any of their ilk to maintain speed in a seaway; a few MTB types were a few knots faster in ideal conditions. Most MTBs including the fastest ones were around 70-some feet long, much smaller and not as well-armed. The Fairmile "Dog-boats" TOS mentioned were slower but about the size of S-boats and the most heavily armed.
     
  5. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Member

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    A Fairmile D would be mine of choice,as long as this is the same as the M.T.B.with the automatic 6 pdr.Cheers,Lee.
     
  6. Markus Becker

    Markus Becker Member

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    Size does matter, especially in case of warships and S-boats were twice as big as the typical MTB.
     
  7. JimboHarrigan2010

    JimboHarrigan2010 Member

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    A Fairmile D would be mine of choice,as long as this is the same as the M.T.B.with the automatic 6 pdr.Cheers,Lee. I've got a photo in one my books of the back of a s-boat mounting a bofors 4cm cannon. No MTB with the 6 pdr automatic cannon entered service in time to sent into action against the German S-Boats by time Germany surrendered
     
  8. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    but what comes with size comes heavier equipment issues and a definite need for more man power the engines and petrols were different and the S-Boots did not "light up" like the British counterparts. The MTB's much more nimble on the turns and easier to get in but the KM vessel had the superior flat out speed.

    Oh how the Allies wanted to get their hands on a viable non-damaged S-Boot unit during war-time activities but were never able to accomplish that feat.

    The Schnellboot was king of the northern waters
     
  9. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Member

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    Hey guys, I recently saw a t.v.show about operation 'tiger',where E boats sunk and damaged several U.S.L.S.T's.Did the E boats Score any other large defeats against the British commonwealth ,and later the U.S.in the E.T.O.and/or the M.T.O.? .Cheers,Lee.
     
  10. Carronade

    Carronade Ace Patron  

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    According to wiki:

    During World War II E-boats sank 101 merchant ships totalling 214,728 tons.[SUP][6][/SUP] In addition, they sank 12 destroyers, 11 minesweepers, eight landing ships, six MTBs, a torpedo boat, a minelayer, one submarine and a number of small merchant craft. They also damaged two cruisers, five destroyers, three landing ships, a repair ship, a naval tug and numerous merchant vessels. Sea mines laid by the E-boats were responsible for the loss of 37 merchant ships totalling 148,535 tons, a destroyer, two minesweepers and four landing ships.[SUP][6][/SUP]

    The biggest warship sunk by an MTB in WWII was the 9100-ton cruiser Manchester by Italian MS boats, their version of the Schellboote. The Italians also scored the biggest ever, the Austrian dreadnought Szent Istvan in 1918 by an MAS.
     
  11. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    think the question deserves to be more specific, I have the Kills mentioned by the S-booten via their own F.d.S. archivs and many destroyed ships were actually damaged. in reply to Tiger this was the prime reason RAF Lancaster groups bombed the French S-boot pens into nothingness, the S-Boot arm was never the same. In fact during 1945 sucesses by torpedos due to an overwhelming Allied warship presecence was few and far between, the mines in different forms were responsible ofr the casualties but no single boot or S-flottille can be given credit though the KM archiv's would say different.
     
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  12. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    to put matters more in perspective the KM S-Boot arm scored a British ship of 9860 T on 09.08.44 in reference to the Normandie invasion. for 1945 stats : 9 ships sunk by Torpedo's and 36 sunk by mines from S-Boots
     
  13. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    The Italian Motosiluranti (MS), including the one that sank HMS Manchester, were copies of the S1 type Lurssen boats that were sold to Yougoslavia and eventually captured, but had Italian weapons. In the Med the destroyer HMS Lightning was sunk by one of the German Schnellboot that got to there through the French canals system. The 8.000t cruiser HMS York is also credited to an E-Boat but it was a MTM Motoscafo Turismo Modificato or barchino (a small motor boat filled with explosives that was aimed at an enemy ship by it's pilot who then abandoned it on an inflatable raft), not an MTB. AFAI Kthere were no MAS (the much smaller Italian MTB design capable of around 45 knots in a calm sea but not especially seawothy) successes in WW2 comparable to the exploits of Luigi Rizzo whose WW1 MAS are credited with the 5.500t coastal battleship Wien besides the 19.500t Szent Istvan.
     
  14. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    the Newcastle was also reported hit at 9100 T but do not think it was sunk. S-56 performed the action on 14 of June 1942. there still is much confusion in the KM records as they are not complete, for one most of 1945 does not exist.
     
  15. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Member

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    Thanks for the replies guys.Did any of the allied or axis M.T.B./S boats use Radar,?.Im not sure if I am correct ,but I think the U.S.P.T.boats had radar in the latter years of ww2 ?,but did they in Europe.?.cheers.Lee.
     
  16. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    4th wilts thanks for the likes and salute'

    yes I do know as fact the KM S-Booten arm experimented with several devices the last one quite effective was Naxos related which was never jammed. Installed on later war manufacture boots in the northern coast. have a couple of beautiful war pics of 8th S-Flottille Boots so equipped, will try and get them loaded to show the device.
     
  17. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    View attachment 16119 my files are buried but here is a rare piece of documentary evidence showing S-302 of the 8th S-Flt while in the Baltic later in Norwegian waters // Berlin-S- Gerät. please note the single and zwilling MG 15 fittings for crew protection.
     

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  18. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    I always liked the S-Boats! Sadly i haven´t be able to get a ride on one of them. Only time i had something similar was on a raid at the Lake Assuan at Egypt where they had some old russian S-Boats to get the tourist quick to the temples.
     
  19. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Member

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    Thanks Erich,that's great information i knew nothing whatsoever about.! Cheers,Lee.
     
  20. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    ah found it. first release of this device with the 8th S-Flt on 24 January 1944 and used till wars end : FuMB Cuba 1a Fliege View attachment 16120 I have a pdf. file somewherecovering this radar unit.....

    Lee other chaps should be able to fill you on Allied radars for PT Boats and MTB's
     

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