Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Neutrality during the war

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Class of '42, Apr 26, 2020.

  1. Class of '42

    Class of '42 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2020
    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    217
    Always found it interesting how certain countries remained to be neutral throughout the war, at least for appearance sake on the world stage, some even called it armed neutrality. I am talking mainly about Switzerland, which shot down or confiscated both Axis and Allied aircraft, which strayed into their air space. But they also denied refugees, especially Jews into the country. While at the same time looked the other way in dealing with money/gold transfers and looted art work which poured in toward the end...as long as a profit could be made, the Swiss were complacent in the matter.

    I believe one time Hitler even had plans to invade Switzerland but cooler heads convinced him that the mountainous terrain wasn't suitable for a quick takeover. Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Ireland, Sweden, Iran and others remained neutral, except for Turkey which declared war on Germany late in the game. But I think Hitler's biggest disappointment was Spain, as he felt helping the Nationalist in the Spanish civil war, would pay dividends later on, while testing new weapons and air tactics...for it was all a big chess match.
     
  2. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,152
    Likes Received:
    45
    After Hitler helped Franco in Spain to grab power, I'm surprised he didn't get Spain into the war, especially from the Mediterranean angle. They did provide 1 division in Russia and maybe helped with espionage, but that's it.
     
  3. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,359
    Likes Received:
    5,711
    There's a famous meeting between Franco and Hitler regarding Spanish participation and possible neutralization of Gibraltar. I have some Spanish "collaboration" from the State Dept. some damn place.
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,461
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    Did Hitler not compare the Franco discussions as having your tooth being pulled out.
     
    James Stewart likes this.
  5. Class of '42

    Class of '42 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2020
    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    217
    After reading more and more about Spain's Blue Division which fought for Germany..I get more impressed with their fighting ability..funny about how they put condoms on the end of rifle barrels and the Russians thought they were some sort of secret gas balloons.
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,461
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    The neutral countries were also useful in getting certain minerals and items.

    For instance:

    from the book by Allders and Wiebes on covering financial actions:

    After the Schweinfurt bombings the SKF ( Swedish ball bearings factory ) tripled its deal with Germany ( 1943 ).

    General Arnold was mad with the US foreign politics not able to stop the Swedish trade with nazi Germany:

    " If you guys had even one tenth of the guts of the guys who were shot over Schweinfurt you would tell the Swedes that we will boycott them now and after the war if they send even one piece of ball bearings to Germany!"
     
  7. Class of '42

    Class of '42 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2020
    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    217
    If Sweden sold the exact same amount of ball bearings to say the U.S. or England or even Russia...would not that still be considered neutral?..being neutral is like walking on a fence line while looking to see which grass is greener.
     
  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,359
    Likes Received:
    5,711
    No, neutral is not supplying materials of war to a combatant on either side. Among other things.
     
  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,461
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    from Aalders-Wiebes book on cloaking financial actions:

    "In 1946 the US foreign department gave an estimate of German investement in neutral countries:

    Switzerland 250 million dollars

    Sweden 105 million dollars

    Spain 90 million dollars

    Portugal 27 million dollars
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    10,103
    Likes Received:
    2,574
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Lets look at it another way...
    The UK & US produced the 20mm Oerlikon without paying license fees. They were later sued and the UK settled for 65 million Swiss Francs, but the US settlement was sealed. However, the US produced about 120 times the amount of 20mm Orelikons that the UK did. Hence the approximate settlement would be 120x65 million. Combining the 2 would give us about...A lot. Even with a 4.4 franc to 1 USD.

    Blows the German number out of the water.
     
  11. harolds

    harolds Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    372
    A couple of years ago my wife and I took a tour of Scandinavia. When we were in Sweden one of guides said something like this: "When it looked like the Germans were going to win, we sold them all our ball bearings. When we weren't sure who would win we sold them to both sides. When we were sure the Allies would win we just sold to them. We were smart!"
     
  12. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,461
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    I would though guess the Germans paid with Zyklon B gold so the colour of money stinks heavily....
     
  13. Class of '42

    Class of '42 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2020
    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    217
    During wartime even the neutrals were looking to make money off of both sides..some were just better at it.
     
  14. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,461
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    I recall reading the Allied also gave Money to Franco to keep him out of war. No wonder Hitler felt cheated after the Spanish civilian war. No help after all the German effort. Franco knew his country could not take part in war. Still it is amazing he was not kicked out even if the USSR wanted it. Maybe says Something?
     
  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,359
    Likes Received:
    5,711
    The Sino-Japanese war wasn't a declared war until after the raid on Pearl Harbor. US neutrality laws stated that we couldn't provide war materials to any country engaged in a war. So both sides dodged that problem.

    China was officially the first country to declare war on Japan after news of the attacks on the US and Britain were received.
     
  16. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,461
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    Was there any military advisors to tell FDR when the Japanese oil reserves would mean their fleet would be unable to function? Or was the whole advisor Team full of useless men? I know that in the 1920's the US considered gentlemen do not spy each other but this is really weird that you squueze the Japanese and think nothing can happen...
     
  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,359
    Likes Received:
    5,711
    Yeah, George Catlett Marshall was useless as tits on a boar. :rolleyes:\

    The oil situation was this:
    Britain wanted every drop of oil we could send them.
    The military wanted the National Reserves stocked up, they knew war was coming.
    The American public wanted to be able to drive their cars.
    Giving oil to the Japanese enabled them to kill more Chinese, something the American public was generally disapproving of.
     
    Kai-Petri likes this.
  18. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,152
    Likes Received:
    45
    People like Allen Dulles and Prescott Bush were moving money around for the Nazis up to 1941 with the law firm Sullivan and Cromwell and the Union Banking Corp, and the US auto manufacturers kept making vehicles for Germany in their German subsidiaries during the war.
     
  19. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    18,359
    Likes Received:
    5,711
    I doubt the Nazis would have allowed those factories to shut down, right?
     
  20. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,152
    Likes Received:
    45
    Sloan of GM stated his company was too big to worry about who's side was on who, and after the war he and Ford sued the US government for US bombing raids in Germany that destroyed their factories and won.
     

Share This Page