Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

No Apologies For Hiroshima or Nagasaki (from an email)

Discussion in 'Atomic Bombs In the Pacific' started by Ken The Kanuck, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,930
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Well, I see the Soviet invasion as outside the scope of the topic at hand, the United States apologizing for dropping the Atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So, I have left that sleeping dog lie.

    The Soviet Union went through Japanese forces "like a hot knife through butter", because The Kwangtung Army had been thoroughly mined for their experienced personnel and first rate units to send to the Pacific to fight the US forces or to be sent to the Home Islands for the last stand there. The remnants were under-equipped or poorly equipped second and third rate units - basically human cannon fodder. They were also widely scattered along the Soviet border, and tended to be clustered around large redoubt forts. So, their collapse was more of a foregone conclusion, rather than a major feat of arms on the Soviets part.


    Oh, the Japanese government, and specifically, the Emperor knew. All because of Yoshio Nishina, who lead Japan's atomic bomb project. Nishina, made known his evidence and conclusions to his friend, Inosuke Furuno, President of the Domei News Agency. Furuno, then took Nishina's evidence and went to see Count Nobuaki Makino, who was close to Emperor Hirohito, on August 7th. On August 8th Makino visited with Emperor Hirohito and presented Nishino's evidence and appealed for an end to the war.

    Nishino who was to have visited Hiroshima on August 7th, was unable to reach the city until August 8th, at which time he began his investigation into the atomic blast, and sent his reprt of to Tokyo. On August 10th, he traveled to Nagasaki and also conducted investigations there. However, he and his scientific team were unable to provide medical help to the medical victims, because the direct radiation effects of the atomic blast were quite severe, and there was little that could be done for many of the most severely wounded.


    I could not agree more.

    Despite what Japanese Army Intelligence had been telling the Japanese leadership(political & military) for months, about a large Soviet build up, the Japanese deluded themselves that the Soviet Union would not attack...Even though the Soviet Union had already provided notice that they were withdrawing early from the Neutrality Pact.
     
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,597
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    The declaration of war by the USSR was no surprise. Takao probably has the hard numbers for the number of troops stationed on Hokkaido under the assumption that the Russians were coming to dinner?
     
  3. green slime

    green slime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    565
    I was under the impression, that the Kwangtung army was depleted because much of their personnel had been sent to the fighting in China (Operation Ichi-Go, etc)? Do you have any information as to the proportions sent to the other theaters?
     
  4. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,930
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    AFAIK, the units were transferred out of the Kawntung Army. Although, I am not certain on the air units yet.
    1 Division - redeployed Philippines
    8th Division - Redeployed Luzon
    9th Division - redeployed Okinawa then Formosa
    10th Division - redeployed Luzon
    11th Division - Returned Japan
    12th Division - redeployed Formosa
    14th Division - redeployed Palaus
    23rd Division - Redeployed Luzon
    25th Division - Returned Japan
    28th Division - redeployed Ryukyu Islands
    29th Division - redeployed Marianas
    57th Division - Returned Japan
     
  5. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,930
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Glantz has a short list in "The Soviet Strategic Offensive in Manchuria, 1945: 'August Storm'"
     
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,597
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    Gotta get that one someday.
     
  7. green slime

    green slime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    565
    Thanx!
     
  8. USS Washington

    USS Washington Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    The Good old USofA
    But in all honesty, would it have really mattered if the Kwantung Army had retained it's first line troops at the time of Operation August Storm, the Soviets did quite well against them at Khalkin Gol, and the Red Army then was no where near at the peak of their power as they were in 1945, plus the Japanese Army in general was not very well equipped for modern warfare compared to other Armies at the time of August Storm.
     
  9. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,312
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Michigan
  10. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,597
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    I actually picked up a hard copy yesterday. Thanks for the PDF, I'll add it to the (soon to be done) page on the end game resources.
     
  11. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,661
    Likes Received:
    67
    It was not only the loss of quality troops it was the complete failure of Japan to detect the location of the attack. The Soviets were able to cross desert that the Japanese thought too difficult. The Japanese were also unprepared for the mobile warfare the Soviets had practiced at for two years. I don't know if the Japanese had even used a division of armor together as a unit, much less a tank army. Where they could the Japanese fought hard and valiantly but most strong points were bypassed.
     
  12. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,597
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    The Steamroller was fully tuned and had a full head of steam up. The Japanese suffered.
     
  13. maxdizzysammy

    maxdizzysammy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    My daughter, 9 and in 5th grade, is doing a thesis for Honor Society and has chosen the topic "What If Japan had not Been bombed?" She needs citable sources. Any recommendations? thanks.
     
  14. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,066
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    The books Downfall, Hell to Pay and The Invasion of Japan are good starts.
     
  15. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,312
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Michigan
    There are some good sources on the internet as well. Googling for "operation Olympic" and "operation downfall" will turn up some. Checking the Truman library (they have an online presence as well). The topic has been discussed here a number of times and some of the people here source their positions so looking through the articles here and elsewhere (axis history forum for instance) will turn up some more.
     
  16. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,066
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    Unless her teacher has nixed it, for her age and grade, Wikipedia might work. We give them alot of grief, much of it deserved, but it does offer a fairly balanced source and usually offers sources for its content at the bottom of the page as well as links to similar or supporting content.
     
  17. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,930
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Wikipedia is never, under any circumstances, a citable source...However, it is a place to find citable sources.

    Some others...In no particular order.
    "The Irreversible Decision 1939-1950" by Robert C. Batchelder
    "The Day of the Bomb: Countdown to Hiroshima" by Dan Kurzman
    "Japan: The Final Agony" by Alvin Coox
    "War's End: An Eyewitness Account of America's Last Atomic Mission" by Maj. Gen. Charles W. Sweeney, USAF Ret.
    "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Richard Rhodes
    "Hiroshima: Why America Dropped the Atomic Bomb" by Ronald Takaki
    "Retribution: The Battle for Japan, 1944-45" by Max Hastings
    "The 509th Remembered" edited by Robert & Amelia Krauss(signed by Dutch Van Kirk & Jack Widowsky)
    "The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936–1945" by John Toland
    "Japan's Imperial Conspiracy" by David Bergamini
    "The Fall Of Japan" by William Craig
    "Enola Gay" by Gordon Thomas & Max Morgan Witts
    “The End of the Pacific War: Reappraisals”(Several contributing authors) Stanford University Press
     
  18. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,930
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Location:
    Reading, PA
  19. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,591
    Likes Received:
    2,181
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Because she's only 9, I suspect Downfall, et.al. might be too difficult for her. The first place she should look should be her school library for sources that are appropriate for her age. The public library's catalog would also be a good place to check. Enlisting the aid of the librarian wouldn't hurt.

    Good luck to her. She's chosen a difficult and controversial topic. If we can be of further assistance, let us know. It might be a good idea to have her read some of the threads here to get an idea of the range of opinions. Let us know how she does..
     
  20. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,930
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Well, there is always the Time/Life World War II series...
     

Share This Page