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No Pearl Harbor

Discussion in 'What If - Pacific and CBI' started by Roddoss72, Oct 28, 2007.

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  1. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    The T-34 did pretty well in the Korean war ;)
     
  2. Herr Oberst

    Herr Oberst Member

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    Well don't be sorry(Band of Brothers)...No I was thinking about two things.

    1. Logistics...supplies for both fronts, taking up transport, the need for Axis powers to have both long range bombers and fighter support to successfully interdict.

    2. In order that the Japanese Airpower could interdict Russian Armor they would need choke points because trying to pick them off, tank buster style, Ju87G HS129, the Japanese had no similar weapons platform as did the Germans.

    Which brings me to fueling the tanks, if you interdict the convoy those tanks without fuel become very tactically limited and then the great advantage over the Japanese is lost.

    This thread reminds me of playing Risk.:)
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Given the quality of their espionage what happens if the Soviets launch a spoiling attack? They may well be able to wreck the offensive capability of the Japanese fast enough that they can keep up to the historical movement of forces to the West.
     
  4. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    More to the point with the original premise is the US State Department's (and US) position on negotiations with Japan known as "Hull's four points"

    The Four Principles enunciated by U.S. Secretary of State Hull as a basis for negotiation with Japan:

    1. Respect for the territorial integrity and the sovereignty of each and all nations.

    2. Support of the principle of non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries.

    3. Support of the principle of equality, including equality of commercial opportunity.

    4. Non-disturbance of the status quo in the Pacific except as the status quo may be altered by peaceful means.

    By this standard, Japan still faces a massive US embargo that will cripple their economy, arms shipments to China, the USSR, and other nations in the Pacific realm, a continued build up of US military infrastructure and capacity as well as diplomatic pressure to end hostilities with (in this case) the USSR.

    And, the problem of British and Dutch embargos that would be a wholly seperate issue have not been addressed. If Japan invades the USSR their whole (note that) WHOLE economy crashes into a massive depression in under six (6!) months.
    With, as this scenario as proposed, the entire Imperial Army and Navy engaged in a war with the Soviets and the quickly looming prospect of their home economy collapsing into ruin what do the Japanese do? They have nothing to use militarily to attack the US, Britain, or the DEI it is committed to a fight with the Soviets.
    Japan is doomed and about to be ruined.

    Oh, one might note that the Imperial Japansese Navy of the period was incapable of using aerial directed shore bombardment from ships. The system and technique did not exist in their doctrine. While ships can provide self-directed fire they cannot use forward observers on the ground on in aircraft for this purpose.
     
  5. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    An excellent point!

    Lets not forget the brilliant work of Victor Sorge.
     
  6. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    Note also that the Soviets could launch a second front from Mongolia and the Trans-Bakal region into eastern Manchucko. This would pose a problem for a planned single front Japanese assault on the Vladivostock region.
     
  7. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Well then its settled, the Japanese could not do much. Thread closed! :D :D
     
  8. Roddoss72

    Roddoss72 Member

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    Well your response is defeated in my senario, as America lifs all santions to Japan, due to Nationalist China (the Legitimate Government) and Japan make peace.

    Then what, their is one factor you have forgotten, Nationalist China and Communist China are at war, so the Soviet Union would have to support the Communist Chinese, and that would make an enemy of Nationalist China, so in the end the Soviets would be forced into conflict with Nationalist China as, Nationalist China has signed the Anti-Commintern Pact with Japan, Germany and Italy, any offensive into China by Soviet forces would be construde as helping the Chinese Communist, thus Japan and Nationalist China would becom allies.

    Exceptionally arrogant of you, to close my thread, i say don't come back to this thread.
     
  9. Herr Oberst

    Herr Oberst Member

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    Come on don't flip the board, I was just about to take the Ukraine:D

    Well I was enjoying your what if thread and was hoping for more detailed accounts of area, terrain, outcome of battle and why, because of what weapons systems used ect...:) sort of a Hypothetical, supported battle scenario.
     
  10. Roddoss72

    Roddoss72 Member

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    When you make a useful contribution instead of backing your fellow pack members, i'll consider it.
     
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