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Number of sub combat patrols?

Discussion in 'US Submarines' started by Nathan Andrews, Aug 25, 2020.

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  1. Nathan Andrews

    Nathan Andrews New Member

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    Can't find this anywhere else, I'm wondering about the total number of combat patrols undertaken by submarines in the USN during WW2. Any of you have an answer, or a source you could direct me towards?
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    113 in the Atlantic.
    1,594 in the Pacific(provided my count is correct).
    From Clay Blair's "Silent Victory".
     
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  3. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Sounds about right . . . counting can be tedious. Just finished counting up 581 pilots and 160 navigators assigned to VR-11 in March 1945. . . that's a helluva big squadron.
     
  4. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    OK, my question is: what constitutes a "combat patrol"? How long was it...when could they call it a day and come back to base?
     
  5. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Go out on orders to a patrol area, loaded for bear, in search of targets and remain for as long as endurance allows. That is a war patrol.
     
  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Basically, low on fuel, out of torpedoes, mechanical problems that jeopardized safety, or damage that jeopardized safety. Whichever came first. Returning for reasons other than those, and you better have a very good reason, preferably several good reasons.
     
  7. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Yup. The powers that be were more than a little unkind, immediately and professionally, to commanders who brought their boat home earlier than the staffs expected without a very, very good reason.
     
  8. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    So why not put replenishment ships out in strategic areas...more fuel, more torps and keep them out there?
     
  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The Germans did have these 'milk ships' but not sure about the Allied.
     
  10. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    While noodling around I found this statement Most patrols were of 42 to 56 days duration. Three boats made patrols of 80 or more days
    U.S. Pacific Submarines In World War II

    I would recommend reading the whole article. Very enlightening about US subs in the Pacific.
     
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    8
    The US did not need milk cows, as the fleet submarines carried more fuel and more torpedoes than the Type VII & Type XI.

    Further, by the time the fuel ran low, the crew was ready for a rest & refit period. All a milk cow would do is keep a tired crew on patrol, increasing the risk of mistakes during crucial periods.

    Better to have the submarine return safe & sound, then go back out well rested.

    Finally, as the war went on, advance submarine bases were set up where US submarines could refuel & reload. So, the window where a milk cow would be useful, but not necessary, was not very wide.
     
  12. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    To be fair, these boats were based in Brisbane, Australia, and were transferred back to Pearl Harbor at the end of their patrols.
     
  13. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    I heard an American say once "they way to speak Australian is to say the word the way it's spelt and then get told that's wrong" - Brisbane (and Melbourne) is one of those words...Most Americans say Briz-bane...Australians say Brizb'n (or Briz Vegas) - Americans say Mel-born...Australians say Melb'n. The whole end of the word is shortened to "n".
    There was a story here in Australia last week where an American woman owned an Emu (I think it went missing or something) the local tv station picked up the story and both the woman and tv station refered to the large bird as an Ee-mooh - ABC here in Australia rang them both up to get the pronunciation right (since it is on our coat of arms) They both decided to name it the way Australians do Ee-myoo

    ""Historically speaking, some words ending in that /u/ vowel in English (e.g. "blue", "rude") were once pronounced with a palatal — /rjud, blju/ — but are now not. This process is known is yod dropping," he said. "Yod dropping is common in many American varieties of English"

    Just a side comment.
     
  14. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Funny, I'm and American, never been to Australia, and my pronunciation of Brisbane and Melbourne is the same as you show for Australians . . .maybe it is the last vestiges of the traditional tidewater Virginia accent . . . though generally, even though my family has be in Norfolk since 1640, I am usually accused of having the east coast Navy accent (probably true, considering, but I have an old-time tidewater accent I can turn off and on or that rises by itself when extreme displeased). I say, though, Melb'n" for the place in Australia and "Mel-born" for the place in Florida.

    I can still pick out an old time tidewater accent in the first thirty words out of someone's mouth . . . give me another thirty words and I can place them on the north or south side of Hampton Roads and probably, and if southside, east or west of the Elizabeth River, that is, Norfolk side or Portsmouth side (nahf'k side or porchm'th side). And for a small few I can just tell by their surname and how they pronounce it. For example in Portsmouth and points west into Sussex County, Butt is pronounced Boot, or even Boat. To the east, in Norfolk, it is But just like it is spelled . . . and the same on the north side of the James, so it pays to know just who is cousin Clarence "But" in Hampton or cousin Anne "Boot" in Great Bridge.

    Hampton, Poquoson, York County accents are easy, but you can't depend on waterman related words for differentiation as they are most often the same . . . an entirely different dialect. Newport News can get tough, too much army accent in some pockets. Williamsburg? usually, unless you know the family, too many Yankees in the mix . . . kind of like, in the Old Dominion, how does one correctly pronounce Armstead (or it's variation Armistead), Talliaferro, or Enroughty?

    I'm told that the true Guineas of Gloucester Point use phrases and words of a variety of late 18th century English as they stemmed from British deserters from Yorktown, but I've read where the distinctive accent was older than that. Once had a couple of self professed Guineas working for me and they did have some odd turns of phrase . . children were chidren and chimneys were chimbleys. Much later I worked with a CSM who used the same pronunciations, but his people were old time east Henrico types. Go figure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  15. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    We did have a tender at Exmouth Gulf in the latter stages of the war, so boats based at Fremantle could go back into action more quickly.
    US Navy Submarine Base, Exmouth Gulf, WA, during WW2
     
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  16. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    That is interesting...sounds like there are many accents not heard on US television, at least those shows we get. And its cool you say Melb'n and Brisb'n right...you'd be the first I've come across.

    Found the story: Emu's escape in US prompts pronunciation debate
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  17. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Beaufort . . . bu-fort . . . bu-furt . . bu-furd . . . bu-ford . . . bo-fort . . . bo-furt . . . bo-furd . . . bo-ford . . . pick . . . I use, right or wrong, bo-furd.

    New Orleans is another fun on . . . when there I'll say naw-lens . .. anywhere else I'll say New-aw-lens . . . never use 'leans'.

    Go to certain parts of Canada it takes me a couple of days to reliable decipher the road signs and another day or so to be confident in french usage in a restaurant.
     
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  18. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Maybe this should have its own thread...
     
  19. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    Not just accents
    Imagine you are driving near the Wirral in NW England - the road crosses a railway track, there is no gate but newly installed there is a post with a light on top and a sign which says "do not cross while light is lit". The light is on. In that part of Britain while means until !

    Yes a new thread might be a good idea
     

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