Operation Overlord Never Executed

This is a scenario that is highly unlikely but one I continuously find myself arguing about with others. I certainly believe that if American forces were not amassed for an amphibious invasion of Normandy, England would not have been able to push Nazi Germany back. Others, however, argue that England did not necessarily need American assistance in western Europe by 1944 and were on the verge of pushing Germany back by herself. I just don't seem to understand the logic of sheer logistics and numbers behind that train of thought. Please, let me know what opinion you all have on this scenario: Was Operation Overlord Necessary?

 

I don't have much more to add than to agree with your view - the British would never have been able to successfully invade the continent without American troops and logistics to support them, by 1944.

Of course, once the Red Army stands close to Berlin an all-British invasion might have been possible, with German attention diverted towards home. But that is pretty far off into what-if land...

 

The UK just about reaching its manpower limits in 1944. There were probably enough British and Commonwealth soldiers to mount the first wave of the assault by themselves - although whether they would have had enough landing craft etc without US aid is a different question - but they didn't have enough resources by themselves to sustain and push forward the invasion into Europe.

 

Thank you for your input gentlemen. I thought that my opinion made sense. If I may, I would like to offer another question. Do you believe that the amphibious invasion of Normandy was the correct course of action? Can you think of any logical alternatives?

 

Without Operation 'Overlord' WWII in Europe might have lasted until 1946, maybe even 1947, and ended with a greater Soviet domination of Europe.

By the time D-day came, the German war machine may have been running at 100% speed, but it had already lost most of its offensive power in the Eastern Front. It was just a matter of time before the Red Army broke the backbone of the Wehrmacht (as it did during Operation 'Bagration' on June 1944), with or without the 50 German divisions of the West.

Great Britain could have stayed at war and relatively isolated during the war, giving Hitler a headache in the Mediterranean, all along the Atlantic coast of Europe (courtesy of the commandos), the RN was a nightmare and the Bomber command would have smashed German cities normally. But she certainly lacked the means to mount an across Channel invasion. Great Britain simply did not have the amount of men to throw against Germany (armies WWI-like sized and lacking 150 French divisions in the flanks), nor the industrial capacity to build the logistical network for the task.

 

I do think it was the right choice, though more resources and a better leadership at Italy could have done lots of things, much more productive than the real ones.

 

If I remember correctly Churchill himself was very interested in the Balkans area.

Another possibility was southern France which was indeed invaded later on.

Personally I´d like to think Normandy was the best choice at the time.

 

Well the anfibius assalt was just the tip of the ice burg. we had parratroopers ya know. the 101st, the 502nd. there was more to it than just the anphibios assalt, though it was the main force.

 

True, the airborne troops played a vital part, but their role was to facilitate the fast movement into the beachead of the main invasion ground forces.

Airborne troops alone would be slaughtered without a quick link-up with friendly ground forces, as was later to be demonstrated at Arnhem.

 

"England was on the verge of pushing Germany outta Western Europe in '44".

Where exactly was this happening????

 

well your tight martin, the airborne is nothing without supporat of anykind. unless they have really good night cover, no anti-air wep, and little sky sweepers(the wepons that sprayed bulltes into the sky, takeing out paratroopers b4 thet hit the ground). of course, some of the paratropers where the best trained soligers in the U.S. army.

 

Framer, I agree with you completely. I'm just expressing an opinion that have come into contact with. And yes Wilks, I am sorry to not acknowledge the Airborne paratroopers, they played a major role in Operation Overlord. Though, like Martin explained, they were meant to assist the bulk of the armed forces which were used for the amphibious invasion. Oh, Friedrich, I would like for you to explain some of the major problems in the Italy theater. I have heard that there was a lot of mismanagement but I have never delved too deeply into it. All that I have heard is that it was mainly a diversionary tactic to pull German attention from the major Western and Eastern fronts.

 

It's simple: during the Battle of Anzio landings and operations were poorly commanded by generals Lucas and Clark, commander of the US V Army. Instead of heading towards the two motorways which went from Rome to the German positions and which were the logistical arteries of the German Army, Lucas digged in and did not do any thing for two weeks (with his superior's, Clark, consent) , thus allowing the Germans to mass 10 divisions before the beachhead. The result was one of the bloodiest battles of the war and a complete stalemate. In fact, marshal Alexander, the Mediterranean's C.-in-C., had to launch an offensive at Cassino to help Anzio, when, originally, Anzio's purpose was to help Cassino!

Then, when Lucas finally broke through, Clark disobeyed superior orders and, instead of rushing towards the motorways and cutting off (destroying) 10 German divisions, he decided to gain personal glory and take Rome, a city with no military value.

Then, the Germans withdrew and digged in, forming a new and more formidable deffence line, thus prolonging the campaign, the bloodshed and not providing any important strategical achievement other than diverting 22 enemy divisions from other theatres.

 

EXACTLY!!!! BRAVO!

Did you know that Clark, after driving through parts of Rome, and seeing the ruins of the colliseum, and the forum romanum, said something along the lines of "It looks like our bombers worked well here."
What an idiot!
They should have chased him, and locked him up, or something.

 

You're not alone there, Professor!

I keep promising myself that one day, I'll read up on the latest research into this confusing and controversial area, particularly with regard to the relations ( or lack of... ) between the Generals.....