Operation Sealion Should Have Happened

Really?

I dont.

Germany was in no position to conduct Sea-Lion.

They had no history of amphibious warfare (unlike the British who had been conducting amphibious/coastal landings for well over a century), they had no specialist landing craft, nor the ability or skills needed to even design them. They also had poor recce of the British coast and a lack of suitable maps or any intel. They also had no available Fallschirmjager having worn both them and the transport fleet out during Weserbung and Fall Gelb.

The Luftwaffe was in no position to dominate the RAF, and would never be. The Kriegsmarine could not challenge the RN in the English Channel and any attempt to cross in converted barges would have been at grave danger from the weather, let alone the RN.

Then, if they did land, you have a force, unable to be re-supplied, fighting a force far larger on it home territory.

I would suggest you look at the Sandhurst wargame in the 1970's that played out Operation Sea-Lion with such notables as Galland and Student as umpires. It ended in a complete defeat for the Germans. Indeed any serious effort at wargaming the operation has ended in the Germans losing badly.

Simply put, the reason Hitler aborted the operation is that he knew it would never succeed given the lack of skills, equipment and doctrine in the German forces with regards to amphibious warfare and faced with a strong RAF & RN.

 

he still left the door wide open for a Allied offensive by not taking care of Great Britain, personally I would have never have started the Russian offensive without taking care of Great Britain.

 

Interesting, The fact that Hitler was fixated on the thought that D-day would come in the Calais area and did not allow von Rundstedt to commit the armored reserves had nothing to do with it.

The RAF wasn't as close to defeat as is assumed in Battle of Britian. while Eleven Group had been mualed pretty good, Ten Group, Twelve Group, and Thirteen Group were all still almost untouched. Any Attemted landing would have to be proceded with massive air raids that the RAF could have put down. After the air riads are over the RAF shoots up the transports and the Germans would have retreated without even attempting the landing.

 

It wouldn't have mattered. Two words on this: Avalanche, Salerno. The exact.....exact scenario you propose, early intervention of panzer forces occured at Salerno. At Salerno there was a panzer division right on the beach. The Allies landed without a preliminary bombardment leaving that unit completely intact. Within days another 5 panzer and panzergrenadier divisions arrived to try and drive the three Allied infantry divisions (one US two British) off their beachheads.
Between naval gunfire support and hard fighting by the Allies the Germans failed miserably to accomplish this. Included in the divisions fighting here were Hermann Göring Pz Div, 16th Pz, 26th Pz, 15th PzGr, and 29th PzGr. All were in top notch condition and none faced anywhere near the level of air power the Germans faced in Normandy. Salerno was at the extreme range of Allied fighter aircraft support at the time.
The point is, Normandy was going to succeed and there was nothing the Germans could realistically do to stop it. The Allies were capable of building up faster and being better supplied than the Germans. The best Germany could possibly hope for in Normandy was minimizing the size of the lodgment and delaying the inevidable breakout that would occur.

 

thats why I said Operation Sealion should have been acted upon.

 

BUT IT WOULDNT WORK!!!! SO IT COULDNT BE!!!

List me the reasons that the Germans could have militarily, logistically and technologically have successfully carried out Op. Sealion?

Even those involved with its planning state it would have failed yet you beg to differ. Tell us the reasons for this?

Getting that 'banging head against wall' feeling...

 

Just a little...

 

Sounds pretty logical.

If you consider that invading USSR was Germany's worst move, leading to their defeat, then postponing Barabarossa until the impossible completion of Sealion operation, would have been a good idea.

 

While highly improbable, in retrospect we all know what happen to the Wehrmatch in Russia. So perhaps an invasion of England might have been a better choice?

Like I say though, highly improbable.......


I think we are starting to beat a dead horse here guys.

 

So they should have waited longer to launch Operation Sealion, built more landing crafts, whats the harm in waiting another year or so to act upon it?

 

Which part of the Germans were not going to match Britain in seapower and were highly unlikely to achieve aerial supremacy isn't getting through? Until Germany can achieve at least one, and preferably both they lose trying to invade England.

 

And what happens when the landing ships runs right into an minefield or a British fleet?

 

I just "love" this golden oldie on Seelöwe

"British propaganda Aug 1940:


...and so it will be best, mein Herrn Engelandfahrer, if you learn a few useful English phrases before visiting us. For your first lesson we will take: Die Kanalüberfahrt.. .
Now just repeat after me: Das Boot sinkt. . . the boat is sinking...
Das Wasser ist kalt... The water is cold. Sehr kalt... very cold.
Now, I will give you a verb that should come in useful. Again please repeat after me:
Ich brenne... I burn
Du brennst... you burn
Er brennt... he burns
Wir brennen... we burn
Ihr brennt... you are burning



http://www.documentatiegroep40-45.nl...el/radio2.html

 

Do I even bother replying to such a sweeping, unfounded statement... PactofSteel do you ever actually read other peoples posts or do believe in your own mind so much that discussion with you is pointless..?


1 - Who is going to build the landing craft? Germany has no experience or doctrine to do so. They wont suddenly come up with a way of landing materials easily on a beach. Look at how long it took the Allies to get it right with years of experience... But Im beginning to think you have a 'thing' for the Germans so logic and rationale wont be obvious to you where your 'Master Race' is concerned...

2 - Who knows what the harm would have been to wait a year? A Soviet invasion of Europe? British Forces moving up through Greece and the Balkans... If we apply the same logic to your flight of fancy we could say that in a years time the British may land in France and push Germany out as Russian invades from the East...

3 - People who fail to provide any form of historical precedent to their 'what-ifs' really aint worth bothering with...

 

you really need to lay off your WWII guru ego trip, it gets old fast.

 

Or you could make a reasoned arguement as to how the Germans could have made Sealion succeed?

Just a thought...

 

are you blind? how many times have I said on this thread they should have DELAYED it until they built more ships, landing craft whatever need be but not done Barbarossa until the threat of Great Britain had been removed. How many times did they change the Overlord strategy? and they delayed it as well.

 

I may be blind but you obviously cant read or understand plain English.

To build landing craft you need the experience of amphibious landings and doctrine to know what to build.

GERMANY HAD NO EXPERIENCE THEREFORE THEY WOULDNT HAVE KNOWN WHAT TO BUILD NO MATTER HOW LONG THEY WAITED!

The Allies conducted many operations, in both WW1 and WW2, and developed not only doctrine but technology. But regardless of this, Britain as major maritime power for centuries had developed knowledge in transporting and landing troops by sea. Germany has never had this history.

You are ignoring the prime fact that German concentrated its armies devlop in land based strategies and their lack of presence as a major naval power in history is reflected in their lack of amphibious expertise.

What you are saying cant happen. They dont know what to build.

Your argument is flawed from the outset by ignoring German military development in respect of amphibious doctrine and technology.

Sadly converted barges will be easily sunk by the weather and conditions in the English Channel... But I suspect you think its like a millpond to cross...