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P-51 Question

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by denny, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. mac_bolan00

    mac_bolan00 Member

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    i haven't seen anyone try and do a head-to-head between the P-51D and the FW TA152. why do people keep picking on the '262?
     
  2. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

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    Maybe because the P-51D and 262 met each other in combat? Did the 152 ever meet with P-51s except that time when Tank outran some P-51s, according to him. But he was a p**** so I choose not to believe him anyway, even if he was a good engineer. I don't think that they ever battled each other though.

    P-47N or a P-47M with half a fuel load could equal the performance of the TA-152. I think the N was ETO only while the M was PTO only. That might be a better matchup of planes that came out at about the same time.
     
  3. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Poppy, sorry I did not catch the meaning of your post quick enough. Indeed there are lots of Allison in monster tractor pull machines. I read that the US produced over 95,000 of them and lots od spares. My Yak 9 owning friend here in Auburn tells me a lot were declared surplus after the war so they are comparatively easy to find . His Yak 9 is one of about 24 built from original drawings, jigs, and parts found in Russia long after the war. Originally they had Klimov V 12's but those are rare and parts scarce. so they bough Allison 1710's , rebuilt them so the Yak is actually a hybrid item with much new stuff. He tells be there is a cottage industry making connecting rods, bearings, piston, gears, etc. for them so they are popular on the "pull" circuit. Merlin's seem to be much scarer and he tells me bring higher prices. Many were used post war in racing hydroplanes like Miss Budweiser and in P-51's in air races. If Merlins are scarce imagine trying to find a DB 600 block for a Bf 109 restoration.l Proverbial hens teeth.

    I could only find a Wright 2800 for my riding mower !

    Gaines
     
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  4. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

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    How about one of these for rarity? :)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_Atsuta
     
  5. Carronade

    Carronade Ace Patron  

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    I believe it was the other way 'round, the -N was the extra-long-range version and was used in the Pacific, the -M in Europe where it scored kills on both jets and V-1s.
     
  6. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

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    You're right. I had them flipped.
     
  7. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    a p51 verses a me 262. Obviously the P51 could not catch a Me 262, but the Me could not turn easily so unless it was a quick strike the P51 could just turn out of harms way. The most common time for jet kills was during take off and landing
     
  8. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    The battle in 1945 was not P51 v Me262 but ten P51s (or Hawker Tempests/P47/Spitfire XIV) v one Me262. A fair fight with no altitude advantage to either side could only go in favour of the Me262, which can disengage at will and can only lose if the pilot is dumb enough to turn with the P51. It is a similar match to a spitfire v a Fiat Cr42. The more nimble aircraft can dodge but will run out of luck if facing a well organised pair. It was the same in the Korean War with P51 v Mig 15

    The real value of the Me262 was it could penetrate the escort around a bomber force and had the firepower to take down a four engined bomber. RAF Heavy bombers in daylight raids in 1945 used the "corkscrew" defensive manouvre.
     
  9. Rantalith

    Rantalith Member

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    Ok, I am coming late to this conversation, but here are my 2 cents worth.

    57 P-51 were taken over by USAAF from RAF Mustang Mk IA contract (when the RAF found them unsuitable). Fitted with Allison V-1710-39 engines. This had a single stage supercharger which cause power to drop off at 15,000 or so.

    They put the Merlin 61 engine (same engine as in the Spitfire IX) into it and named it the P-51B. The Merlin 61 had a two speed two stage intercooled supercharger, and this gave an increase in horsepower from the Allison's 1,200 to 1,620 (or 1,720 in War Emergency Power) an increase of top speed from 390 mph to 440 mph as well as raising the service ceiling to almost 42,000 ft.

    So you can see there was a huge difference between the Allison and Merlin engine
     
  10. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    While the Me-262 does have some significant advantages there are other ways for it to loose. Having an engine fail would be a rather classic example. The Me-262 may be able to disengage as long as both engines are working but it's going to have a hard time preventing the opposing fighter from getting some shots in. If they are head on passes as would seam likely then the speed of closure is going to mean pretty low P(h) and the P-51 (or other allied fighter) is going to be putting more rounds in the air so a better chance of a hit. The Me-262 is a bit bigger than the P-51 as well isn't it? Vulnerable area especially from the front is going to be a bit bigger as well 2 engines and a pilot as opposed to one engine that protects covers a good portion of the pilot.
     

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