Pearl Harbor was a TRAP TO CATCH A (JAPANESE)

"alduce me to introlow myslef" my bejeweled breast, s@@t is a product of the digestion, and as much as I chew the event in question, it leaves a faint uncertain taste in my mouth. Hitler declared war on America within the cusp of Pearl Harbor; assuming a genius for timing, what could it be! Did he come to the table with something up his sleeve?

 

Sure, we could trash a Jewel and then buy into the trash they sell us! haha
To catch a thief is not as much in the pursuit, but the wisdom of laying in wait.
Good intelligence is in knowing the future of intentions, and then setting the table.
Good boy Tamino, what you lack in tactics, you make up for in instinct!

 

Bingo!

After an embargo the conflict was inevitable and Americans should have known that Japan will attack, rather sooner than later. That was obvious and, indeed, why Americans didn't do more to protect the most vulnerable point at Pacific? Was that just a "lack" of precautionary measures?

This could be difficult to prove right or wrong but still, this appears to be a valid claim.

Others?

 

Stop looking at the past through the eyes of the present.

War was not "inevitable" as you put it. Prevailing American thought of the day was that the Japanese would not take the road to war, because after all the Americans knew of all their potential strengths: greater size, much larger population, vast natural resources, self-sufficiency of supply, vast industrial superiority, ongoing naval and military build-up, etc.. Any Japanese attempt to make war on the US must surely fail, so the Japanese would not be so daft as to even make such an attempt. What they Americans did not have was a clear understanding of the Japanese mindset - that the Japanese would look at the same data and conclude that the death of their nation was preferable to any "loss of face."

As to a supposed "lack of precautionary measures", that supposition is laughable. Pearl had the tools, they just did not know how to use the effectively. For instance, the radar stations on Oahu not only detected the incoming Japanese strike, but also detected the advance Japanese scout planes sent to search the area. Further, they also tracked the Japanese planes heading back to North to their carriers. It was Short's failure to appreciate the many advantages of RADAR, not to mention it's necessity - since the USN was not providing they long-range patrols that they were supposed to be doing.

 

We all look to the past from own perspective and, obviously, our views on the subject of this thread slightly differ.

It isn't important what an average Joe thought then, what really matters is what the leadership of America knew and what their priorities were before the attack on Pearl Harbor. There were competent intelligence services, politicians and analysts who were supposed to worry about the state security. It is quite suspicious that almost every segment of state security has failed.

What if somebody has under-estimated the real danger of attack and over-estimated the need for causus belli?

 

"Never underestimate the stupidity of large groups"

I think it is easier, for most, to assume that anything as large as the Japanese agression in the Pacific could have been overlooked/ ignored by so many for so long without it being a global conspiracy. The other side of the equation could also be the inferred insult to the Japanese: that they were not capable of making such advances without being noticed.

I think it would do well to remeber that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor/ Singapore/ Phillipines et al has always been billed as a "Sneak Attack".

 

Oh Crap this forum is real trouble then. Well at least I'll know I dragged you down with me!

 

Sure, I quote myself:

See?

Of harm done. I was thinking the OP was also making a joke, when I read his CT. The 'serious' reactions of you guys made me take it one step further.

 

No! Good intel is to know the capabilities of your enemy and plan for all the things he could do. The US knew the Japanese were capable of attacking PH, Kimmel and Short just didn't think they would do it.

The USAAF had 140 modern fighters on Oahu. That was the largest concentration of US fighters outside the continental USA. They had not one but several radar stations and four AA-regiments with ~90 3" guns and ~100 .50s.

In 'Attack on PH' A.D. Zimm estimates that the Japanese could have lost between 100 and 300 planes if the defenders had been vigilant. Add another 50 planes damaged beyond repair, take into consideration that Kido Butai had ~400 planes and PH looks like a very well protected place.

 

It was not operational on Dec.7th. It had been fully operational in November, when Short put the Army on full alert for at least a week.

edit: See here.

 

I was talking about the American political and military "leadership", whatever the "average Joe" thinks would not have any bearing on the matter.

Yes, there were "competent intelligence services, politicians and analysts", however, the vast majority believed that the Japanese would not choose to go to war with the United States. But, if Japan did decide to go to war it would be confined to the areas close to Japan. No one believed that the Japanese were capable of steaming a large task force several thousand miles away - since, at the time, Japan lacked the necessary logistics to carry out such am attack. *NOTE* While Japan had experimented with under-way refueling back in the mid-thirties with their light cruisers, it had never been tried using their larger units. Even still, the shorter ranged carriers and cruisers of Kido Butai had to store extra bunker oil, needed to make the trip, in drums wherever space could be found.


All of that aside, the Americans didn't see it coming, because we did not want to see it coming. We were to entrenched in the beliefs of our own moral, mental, and physical superiority over the Japanese. Likewise, the Japanese were also blinded by their beliefs that the Americans were weak and lacked the "spiritual" will to fight a war. Most conflicts begin this way, so why is it so surprising?

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

We did under-estimate the danger and over-estimated the need for causus belli. The USS Isabel(PY-10), the requisitioned schooner Lanikai, and the schooner Molly Moore were to form a "defensive information patrol" in front of the Japanese invasion force heading towards Malaya. The USS Isabel managed to get in place, and was overflown and continuously kept under naval and aerial reconnaissance by the Japanese. But, the Japanese made no move whatsoever to attack her before she was recalled to Manila on December 6th. The schooner , now, USS Lanikai was just about to leave for her station when the Japanese attacked on December 7th. The schooner Molly Moore was not requisitioned by the USN before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

 

Actually not they didn't, at least with the force they did. They knew that they could attack with submarines and possibly saboteurs and they planned for that.

 

I diasagree. The USN had included carrier attacks on PH in many pre-war exercises. With regard to the actual capabilities, it is correct that some of their CV didn't have the range to make the trip but US intel on Japanese carriers was sketchy at best. The USN didn't even get the names and numbers right. No way they knew about the range and if the IJN was capable of underway refuling.

In this situation its best to assume the enemy has similar capabilities as you. Which the US military did:

Martin-Bellinger report:

edit:

Short was indeed worried about sabotage but not many others were. Not his predecessor, not the Governor, the Major or the head of the local FBI station.