Pictures of Indochina during WW2

Thank you for your compliments

The truth is, I've never worked in a school of any sorts, and in fact I do not even have any formal college education (having taken two years out of my life to serve in the Vietnamese Defense Forces.)
I have done extensive reading on Vietnamese history since I was in my early teens, and have conducted several interviews with a few of my grandparents who were around during the war to try and get a better idea of what life was like back then (you can read about one of my grandfathers here, if you are interested: http://www.ww2f.com/what-granddad-did-war/54756-vietnamese-grandfather-during-ww2.html)

Pretty much all the information I have posted here has been taken from books, historical journals, or discussions with several prominent Vietnamese historians here in my home city and the surrounding area, who in the past have honored me with their time to go over numerous details about the war.

I am glad you find it all so interesting.

EDIT: Another photo, this one showing a Japanese officer in Vietnam surrendering to a member of the British Indian Army.
View attachment 15607

 

Is this a joke or revisionism? The least I can say that this notion of indirect genocide is a bit far fetched. It would be as if I said Moscow was responsible for these million death because it was the first country to experience Communism and inpired the Viet mingh. The French neither attracted the Japanese , nor the americans to Vietnam and the Japanese would have occupied Vietnam without the French anyway . You can blame the French for their colonial rule, not for the consequences that were caused by Japan and the U.S. The Japanese did not come to help the Vietnamese, they came to plunder the country, use it as a strategic base and steal the rubber. The fact that they could brutalize a few European civilians too was the icing on the cake.

 

@Skipper

I do not wish to debate this topic with you further. Obviously you and I have very different ideas about how Japan contributed to Vietnamese independence during WW2, and therefore will never reach an agreement.

Keep in mind, though, that the French committed countless acts of brutality against my people even before the Japanese came. Have you seen the photos I posted here of the beheaded nationalists?

The French colonial soldiers were little more than thugs in uniform, who had ravaged our country for decades before the outbreak of the Second World War. The Vietnamese went through famine, brutality, and the sight of our old culture being crushed underfoot by foreigners. Did you know that during the later half of the 20th century there was an entire community of Eurasian people living just outside Bien Hoa who were the offspring of Vietnamese women who had been raped by French soldiers?

Again, the Japanese may not have kept all their promises or contributed the kind of help we expected them to, but they certainly never did anything as horrific as what the French colonial regime put our nation through between 1865 and 1954. It was the Europeans, not the Japanese, who caused the most carnage in our homelands.

 

The 1908 picture shows shackled criminals who were found guilty of attempting to kill an entire garisson in Tonkin by poisoning them. The garisson surivived because the poison was too diluted. the poisoners were captured and executed.

http://turandot.chineselegalculture.org/Essay.php?ID=30



You cannot compare the executions of a few criminals to the 100.000s innocents killed in China by the Japanese .

You'll need more to convince me.

 

There is always an agreement possible. If you prove facts I will believe you , I don't claim to know anything about Indochina and there are always things to learn. I appreciate some of your input (for instance the Bien Hoa example) and I understand your resentment against the former colonial power. However you'll have to understand my point of view as well when I mention some of the Japanese occupiers were war criminals. In fact I would be disappointed if you stopped debating.

 

These tidbits of not well known history are treasures, thank you for posting them.

 

Again, I can find little to suggest that the Japanese committed the same kind of atrocities against my people as they did the Chinese, Koreans, or Filipinos. I have given you examples of the French brutality against my nation, perhaps you would be good enough to show me some of Japanese cruelty in Indochina. Again, aside from the gathering of natural resources and food stuffs such as rice (which I will admit caused a certain degree of problems in the countryside, although again this was made worse by the fact that the French were doing exactly the same thing) I can find little else to suggest that the Japanese really did treat the Vietnamese worse than the French colonists. So far you have showed me of Japanese cruelty towards Vichy soldiers, but not towards Vietnamese civilians. From what I have seen, you seem to be inclined to take the point of view of the European colonialists (such as your reference to the executed Vietnamese patriots as "criminals") and therefore automatically condemn the Japanese military, no matter where they were, as murderous psychotics.

 

Who said I condemned them ? They were condemmned by a judge and I did nothing but translate what is mentionned on the very postcard you posted.

Also if you weren't biased by your communist education you would have showned me the complete picture showing their guards were colonial troops and thier judges Vietnamese..... Your one sided point of view is getting hilarious and looks more like a crusade than anything else. If you want to talk about attrocities then mention BOTH camps, do you even know how few French POWS were treated by the Vietcong?
Your country had a modern administation and you even owe your railroads to the French , so if you need to to bash on the colonial period fine, but please leave out the clichés and the commie propaganda ...the cold war is over ...


I am surprised you did not mention the Japanese attempt to arrest Vietnamese leaders to the extend that Pham VAN Dông and Vo Nguyen Giap had to find refuge near the Chinese border where they met Nguyën Ai Quoc. This is how they founded the Doc Lap Dong Minh Ho in 1941. You must be aware that the communist Vietnamese who were caught by the Japanese were not exactly send to a four star prison.

The 1944_1945 famine should also be mentionned and note that the Colonial administration was just one cause among many others, including allied bombings of roads and natural disasters such as droughts.
Vietnamese Famine of 1945 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Well, I think that settles it then. We both have shown what we believe to be the honest truth about the matter, and have both given historical evidence to support our claims. Of course the Japanese were going to be unfriendly with the people who took up arms against them; the French did the same thing. You were making it out as though the Japanese military came to our country, plundered all our land, and committed massive atrocities against helpless civilians (which is evidenced by your constant referral to incidents in China and elsewhere, as well as you calling them "ruthless invaders").
I think we can establish that this is not entirely true, and that in general the Vietnamese population had it much better under Japanese occupation than we ever did under France, and were certainly better off than people in China or Formosa.

For one final time, I have never, nor will I ever, attempt to excuse the acts of the Japanese military elsewhere, particularly against indigenous people in the South Pacific. I am only trying to bring to light how much assistance groups like the Kempeitai did in fact give to our nationalists (bar the communists, since they were fighting Japan) and to reiterate the fact that the French colonial regime was far more brutal towards Vietnam than Japan.

With this, I ask that we conclude the debate, as I can guess that the only way this thing will continue is with us both continuing to give examples to try and support our claims and never actually reaching a mutual agreement as to what really happened.

EDIT: By the way, many thanks for your like on my thread about Cuong De. I hope it was of interest to you, and maybe helped to enlighten you as to the reasons for some groups giving support to Japan.

 

Great posts guys, I can understand why emotions run high, Both of you are proud of your country and rightly so. Please continue on with the disscussion as I am sure that many here are appreciating it.

Now to stir the pot, first because of my heritage which is in part English (the largest colonizers the world has ever known) and because I am Canadian. This point is that I do not feel any responsibility for the actions of my countrymen or ex-countrymen that I did not have any control over. I do not think that anyone else should either.

Secondly having read about and travelled in SE Asia a bit I have to wonder about the Dutch versus the French after WWII. It seems that both had colonies in SE Asia, but the evolution into independant countries was very different for Indoenesia than it was for Veitnam. Perhaps the Dutch were weaker? Or were they smarter? Let's face it the reason we gave up our colonies was the profit had gone out of them.

KTK

 

^ "Let's face it the reason we gave up our colonies was the profit had gone out of them."

I find this statement slightly demeaning towards those who fought and died to bring freedom to their respective nations. Are you saying that the only reason Europeans pulled out of Asia is because they got bored and realized there were no more opportunities to make money? I would disagree. Groups like the Viet Minh so utterly crushed the French in the field during the post-war period, that the colonists there withdrew largely because they knew at that stage there was no hope of them possibly stemming the tide of nationalist forces. It was not a simple matter of them looking at their profit margins and saying "hmm, this nation seems to be going down in revenue, why don't we leave and let these people get on with their lives."

 

When there was enough reason to control other lands (wheter they were monetary or a matter of national pride) resources were found to control the native populations.

The resources expended equal the amount of trouble that it takes to retain these colonies. If there is enough profit then more resources will be found. Mind you a portion of the "trouble quotant" is not financial. So in fact the only reason is not financial.

I doubt very much that any country has been able to over throw the colonial yoke because of the bravery of their people. Often external reasons such as the war with France in the case of the American revolultion and the financial drain of fighting so far from home.

I doubt that their were ever a braver people than the Zulu's but no matter how brave they were it wasn't enough.

So I am sorry if you find my statement demeaning, I believe that it is true. Mind you it in no way was intended to slight any patriot.

KTK

 

I don't think that is necessary, although I won't dispute you if you do move it. In a way it all pertains to the events which took place in wartime Vietnam and their effect on later history. I just think that at this point neither I nor the other user will be able to find a common ground in this debate, since we both clearly hold strongly opposing viewpoints.

 

Well since the starter and two administrators agreed to end this debate , let us now move to new horizons.

This thread is now closed.