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Polish Army in WW2

Discussion in 'Prelude to War & Poland 1939' started by Kai-Petri, Mar 9, 2003.

  1. Ron

    Ron Member

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    Calm down Red baron, remember this is just a discussion. Try not to take things too personally. No one is trying to insult you.
     
  2. TheRedBaron

    TheRedBaron Ace

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    I can edit my own posts thanks.
     
  3. Pure Terror

    Pure Terror recruit

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    You know what, if you define what someone said on the previous thread 'Polak' it's actually a racial slur. Another example of World-Ignorance of Poland.

    I am not saying that Poland are the only heroes, but I'm just pointing out what Poland did.

    I maybe the only American to say this on the thread, but POLAND did warned the British and American forces of not fulfilling their short-planned operation. Operation Market Garden that is. or the enigma code, which of course the British took credit for at that time.

    I fully support these facts:

    Because I have researched them.

    Perhaps you define them stupid, when 30,000 officers were executed by the Russian "Mob-Soldiers" to be the downfall of their leadership in the army. Officers had experience and many tactics which could of helped alot during the blitzkrieg, although i must admit it would never be won because of the two opposing armies.


    I also had a great-grandfather, a lieutenant in the Polish Partisans groups who sabotaged numerous Panzers and bridges also used numerous methods of guerilla warfare, for example when he attacked a Russian Company 140 miles south of Bialystok. He was unfortunatly captured by the Russians, tortured by decapitating his limbs and finally shot to death in front of my grandmother.

    Perhaps, the only true Polish mistake was when Poland had set foot in America. Why did they have to fight for our country in the revolution anyway? Hmmm sad waste of Polish lives when what? 300 years nothing special was given to them but a lousy thank you a kiss my ass goodbye, cause we ain't helping you.


    Well go ahead flame me with your rants about how stupid I am, how America and Allies helped. About your experience and your researches, this is just my opinion. Each to his own.

    Sorry for my mistakes, but Iam in a rush to work. Have a good day.
     
  4. Ali Morshead

    Ali Morshead Member

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    Got sick of sitting back and seeing the German reaction to this topic.
    Here we have Erich soothing Red Baron for his ERROR about the French hooking to the south of Monte Cassino while the Polish Corps came around the North. Actually the CEF went through the mountains to the west of the Liri Valley. The British 8th Army sent 8 Indian & 4 British up the Liri Valley and the Polish Corps against Monte Cassino DDay was 11 May. Further units, 78 British,6 Armoured & 1 Cdn moved into the bridgehead. On 17 May, in daylight, Polish troops attacked and finally too Pt 593, then San Angelo & Albaneta farm, the Monastery still held out. On the night of 17/18 May, Polish troops carefully moved into the Monastery and on 18 May linked with a patrol from 78 British. So maybe the Gemans pulled out, at the last minute, it doesnt distract from the Polish effort.

    Erich, you comment on the command problems for the Allies "Foolish command decisions lost way too many mixed Allied forces, Aussie, Indian, Pole, US, British.........you name it what a waste, and what a waste for German infantrie, mountain and finally airborne to defend this big hunk of rock" It would have been a nightmare, with the closest Australian troops about 10,000 miles away, the Kiwis dont rate a mention, bugger all Indians had any officer roles let alone command positions. And the magnificent effort of the German troops held the Allies to the south for 4-5 long months, an admirable effort.

    While I think that Polak z Polski is over the top in his comments, I equally believe that the reaction has also had its head in the sand.

    [ 26. February 2005, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Ali Morshead ]
     
  5. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    sorry mate my head is never in the sand. Monte Cassino never should of happened..............period ! It was a waste of lives just like the stinking warfore both sides.
     
  6. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    For once, I disagree with you Erich. The Germans were past masters at throwing away troops for no good cause. By comparison, the Allies were rank amateurs at doing it.
    One only has to look at Stalingrad, Kursk, Tunsia, and any of a dozen other 'last stands' where the Germans reinforced obvious defeat. True, Hitler had a big role in many of these fiascos but, none-the-less the OKW bears a degree of responsibility too.
    Where in Europe did the Western Allies simply throw away 50 or 100,000 troops in an obvious defeat after their initial disasters in 1939 and 40? They didn't sacrifice thousands to save a handful of troops either as the Germans did so often.
    The German military of WW II's problem was that they willingly overreached all-too-often and went beyond the point of reasonable return. It cost them dearly and had alot to do with losing the war.
    That the Allies occasionally made the blunder and attacked some horrifically fortified position like Cassino or into the Hurtgen Wald is hardly a fair comparison.
     
  7. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Lets all relax here, some good points have been made but let's make sure we stay civil. ;)
    [​IMG]

    [ 29. July 2006, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: Otto ]
     
  8. Polak z Polski

    Polak z Polski Member

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    Thank you Pure Terror.

    Where was your Grandfather from?
    One of my grandparents too was captured by the Russians and taken to a gulag in Siberia. He escaped and walked all the way back home, but he was spotted and shot just before he got there. He managed to make it the rest of the way, and died before the next day. Many other members of my family were killed by either Germans or Russians.
    Well, it looks like your family knows the true meaning of sacrifice. I salute your great grandfather, along with all those killed in the war fighting both nazis and communists.

    Once again, thank you
    and God bless
     
  9. Pure Terror

    Pure Terror recruit

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    Thank you for your support as well Polak z Polski,

    my great grandfather on my father's side lived in Dalkszyszki, it's now a part in Belarus, because the Russians took it... hmmm.

    My mother's father and mother had also a though dramatic life. ALL of their families were lost and they were transferred to work camps in Germany at just 15 years of age. Also my grandmother's first husband who was also a officer died during the 39' blitzkrieg.

    Please do not make fun of the Polish Calvary defending it self by lances and swords, even though it happened only during one battle. What would you do if you were non-armed and only had one way out? Go to work for the enemy or die from poor health conditions or try to defend your country. I think the Poles were heroic in those terms, desperation it was.

    A very sad war it was.
     
  10. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Red, I read your original posting here. Whether your sentiments were warranted ot not, the language you chose was not appropriate.
     
  11. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for letting us know, even if some of us have proven some of those 'facts' being everything but facts. :rolleyes:

    Indeed. And I'd dare to say that no member of this forum disagrees with this. But one thing is giving appropriate credit to the brave Poles and a very different one is saying (with a cheauvinist and out of place attitude) that they achieved victory because they were best than the other brave soldiers who fought and failed.

    And I agree with T. A. The German Army had not learned much from its WWI mistakes and still applied the typical doctrine of immediate counter-attack.

    Anzio and Cassino were really bloody battles for the Allies, because of very bad leadership at Army-command level and because of terrain itself. But the Germans had plenty more casualties in these battles. Marshal Kesselring's offensive against the beachhead was a blood bath, and Von Senger und Etterlin also threw his paratroopers into bloody unsuccessfull counter-attacks at Cassino too, like that against the Indian 4th division.
     
  12. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    like it or not friends Monte Casino was a butt kicking party for both sides. The Allies wasted themselves trudging up that hump of rock and the poor Poles were thrown in as a last result althought the Fallschirm truppen had withered down in volume they were still a commendable force and proved themselves in make-shift quarters on the Hill and in the twon of Cassino, or at least what was left of it.....
     
  13. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Gents a touch off topic but since we have been chatting briefly about M. Cassino, does anyone own a copy of Mathew Parkers Monte Cassino-the hardest battle ? would like your opinion on this book

    E ~
     
  14. Polak z Polski

    Polak z Polski Member

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    I bet that if Poland took back that land you would instantly hear people from western Europe shouting that Poland is a land of war mongerers and of course, Poles all have a "cheauvinist and out of place attitude"
     
  15. Wojownik

    Wojownik recruit

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    :D Haha
    I think you're right
     
  16. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    I never said all Poles. I said YOU were. ;)
     
  17. Polak z Polski

    Polak z Polski Member

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    You can say what you like, but it doesn't make it so.

    By the way, your use of the word chauvinist all the time has no effect on me. Do you honestly think that I will say "oh no! I have upset mr Friedrich with the truth! I had better keep quiet while he bashes Poland so that he may remain unoffended."?
    Ha! Think again.

    Now a small lesson in English. Chauvinist means someone who thinks that their group/race is simply superior to anyone elses. This does NOT describe one who defends the memory of his ancestors when someone tries to slander them.
    I do not say that Poland is superior to everyone else, but simply state facts.
    If a French runner and a Polish runner were in a race and the Frenchman won, would your telling me so make you a chauvinist?

    If you want to know what chauvinist really means, go to Auschwitz or Katyn.

    I am no chauvinist, but a Pole who is very proud of Poland's history.
     
  18. Heartland

    Heartland Member

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    Actually...you have posted numerous unsupported and/or false claims as facts in this very thread, and simply ignored most of the counter-points presented. You have not retracted your claims or commented on them, even when presented with well-supported facts backed up by sources.
     
  19. Mahross

    Mahross Ace

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    Yes but you seem to think that poland has played a central role in modern europes history. That is not true. There is being proud and being egotistical. Yes poland has made contribution but pales in comparison to the effect the great powers have had upon the character and nature and of europe. I'm afraid that is hstorical fact. Poland would not be the country it is today without either of the world wars. It is argueble that it would even be a country without them. Therefore, the more powerful countries have had a far more prevelant effect upon europe history than Poland. Fact!
     
  20. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Now we're arguing about linguistics? OK.

    The word cheauvinist stands for 'great nationalist enthusiasm, some times belicist enthusias,'. The word comes from the name of sergeant Nicolas Chauvin, one of the most decorated soldiers of Napoléon I's Grand Armée, who participated in all the Napoleonic wars, from the Alps crossing and the Pyramids to Borodino and Waterloo. Chauvin was wounded 17 times and was awarded La Légion d'Honneur. His name became synonim of the abnegated and patriotic soldier.

    The legend of Chauvin and the Emperor was spread by the literary works of Alexandre Dumas and Victor Hugo, amongst many others.

    Therefore, cheauvinist is not a harsh word. Can be positive or can be negative. You've been quite pedantic and too pro-Polish, a chauvinist in the negative sense, nothing more. Had you showed more fanatic or pathologically nationalist attitudes, then I wouldn't have hesitated in calling you a 'fascist'. But you're not.

    I completely agree with Heartland. You've not come here to upset anyone (you have not upset me, for one) with the truth (which is not such thing, as it has been proven without any reaction or comment from you).

    Poland is a sovereign free nation now, and it is the way it is because of its History. The Poles are the way they are because they used to be a very powerful monarchy in the Middle Ages, and then a weak one which was frequently attacked by Prussia, Austria and Russia.

    If we insist on your conspiracy theories, then we'll end blaming God for putting Poland in the frontier between eastern and western Europe and between those damned krauts and russkies! :rolleyes:
     

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