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Red Army Summer Disaster of 1941. Why?

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe October 1939 to February 1943' started by Artema, Mar 15, 2010.

  1. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    And I must protest the slurring of the Red Army in a logistical sense.

    The Russians have a unique talent for logistics, a fact driven home to the so-called 'experts' in the field (Germany) by their complete and utter reorganization of not only the severly beaten army of 1941, (and a second complete reorganization after the campaign of 1942), but the fullsome movement of their own production facilities. This talent for extracting order from chaos served them well.
     
  2. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I'm not sure I would put it that way. What they did seem to have was a very good handle on what they could do with what they had on hand and not push too far beyond that unless they were very desperate.
     
  3. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    Sounds like a fairly solid grasp of the subject to me....

    You definition certainly does the Russki's more than a little justice.....logistics reflect the science of the probable combined with the practical applications of the possible!

    Russian logistical skill was not just a reflection of their desperation or their totaltarianism. It was something innate that has been built into the the essential Russian character, a product of dealing with many numbers most of the time. When things are run on a large scale, your logistical understanding increases expotentially to fit the current problem. German logistics in the GPW reflect a certain naivete in their application, failing to take into account factors that the Russians saw as constants....like mud filled roads....or NO roads...or lack of air transport...or horses that could cope with the weather....or weather forecasting as an arm of the battle....

    Russians are an educated people, with an uncanny knack for producing the right mind at the right time seemingly from out of nowhere....

    Such a pity their leadership treats the lives of it's people like so much chaff in the wind....
     
  4. ANZAC

    ANZAC Member

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    A crippling blow for the Red Army in '41, was the quick destruction of the VVS, caught mainly on the ground.

    In July of 1940, under a year before Germany attacked, the Soviet Union began a further re-organization of its forces. Squadrons that formerly had 20-30 planes were put together to form 60 plane regiments. Three to five of these regiments formed an air division. Along with this change was it was planned to upgrade existing planes in the force to their newest models. Progress was slow with the re-organization and the upgrades however, and by June 22, 1941 when Germany invaded, the process was only 20% completed.

    Newer planes had been designed but they were not out of the testing phase and their mass production was unavailable. The result was an unmitigated disaster, with the VVS nearly becoming extinct at the hands of the more experienced and better equipped Luftwaffe.

    Red Army tank forces could to a degree get away with missing armaments, faulty engines, missing or damaged gun sights, missing armour, fewer then a full crew etc, on the other hand aircraft could be & often were, grounded as soon as a engine fault appeared. This could be caused by the smallest component & it was almost impossible to improvise the spare parts [in short supply] for an aero engine.

    Soviet losses in the first three days of Barbarossa were some 3,922 machines [according to Russian historian Viktor Kulikov.]

    Many were destroyed on the ground. Others were destroyed by poor tactics. Soviet bomber wings tried to attack without fighter escort. When threatened, bombers formed tight wedges and fighters formed defensive circles

    The Luftwaffe had achieved air superiority over all three sectors of the front, and would maintain it until the close of the year, largely due to the need by the Red Army Air Forces to maneuver in support of retreating ground troops. The Luftwaffe would now be able to devote large numbers of its Geschwader to support the ground forces.
     
  5. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Artema. Why did Russians call Finns. Tsuhna? Tsuhna? Lazy unwilling to work? Russian nickname. All the way. Were you surprised even by th Tsuhna? Tsuhna Artema Tsuhna. He could fight
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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  7. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Tsuhna could fight. You know the meaning so say what it means.
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    But you had a molotov-Ribbentrop deal???
     

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