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Research on 9 German Military Relatives.

Discussion in 'What Granddad did in the War' started by j.parker6, Jan 9, 2016.

  1. j.parker6

    j.parker6 New Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Apologies if anything is in the wrong format etc.

    Background information: I'm researching my family history on my German side of the family, using diaries etc. to compare the experiences of German relative to those of my English/Scottish Family who were also in the military. It is all part of a research project for my History degree at the University of Newcastle, so any other info/sources from similar soldiers/regiments would be much appreciated. I myself am a member of the British Officer Training corps whilst at university, so I am familiar with modern terms etc

    I am currently trying to correctly identify the regiments with whom my relatives served, as well as any other information.

    From what I have worked out so far by researching Medals, Bages and CollarTabs, is that:

    In the image of the 1 woman and 3 men;

    - The centre left gentleman was a Pilot/Fallschirmjager and was a Master Sergeant
    - The Centre right gentleman was a member of the Panzer Lehr
    - The gentleman on the right was a member of the SS, although I cannot work out his rank as his collartab seems to be at an angle meaning I cannot confim which it is, although from what I have researched I believe he is an officer based on the outline of the Collartab.

    The man in the 1st and 3rd photo is the same person, but I do not know which rank he is for certain.

    I cannot work out anything else from the 4th or 5th photos, so any help with those would be appreciated.

    I believe the man in the 6th photo was a Stuka pilot, from what my grandpa had told me from conversation with deceased relatives.

    Please correct me if I am mistaken.

    I am awaiting a response from elderly relatives in Germany on names etc as these photos are from my cousin, who never knew about any of them til very recently.

    Thank you for your help.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Picture two : Oberfeldwebel (fliegertruppe ) with 1st class E.K. and ground assault badge : so Fallschimrjäger or Luftwaffe ground unit , not pilot. Note he has a infantry Koppelschloss (buckle)

    The Panzerman (if his tabs are pink) has the assault badge and the 3rd class wounded badge + 2nd class E.K. (possible received after a galant action where he got wounded, but that is just a guess.)

    The officer on the right is most probably an administration clerk, not SS. If haven't identiefied his speciality yet, but I tend to think he was into communications (Funker or Nachrichten) .

    Could you download larger pictures of the others, they are 7 or 11ko and I can't see details . The familly picture seems to have a man with a Waffenrock .

    Have you indentified the place where the picture was taken (under the photogrpahs name) ?
     
    bronk7 likes this.
  3. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Welcome to the forums!
     
  4. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    Welcome to the forum. I see you've already had a response from our resident uniform expert. You seem to have hit the jackpot.
     
  5. YugoslavPartisan

    YugoslavPartisan Drug

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    Hi there and welcome to the forums.

    I think that the soldier on the first picture was Leutnant or Oberleutnant according to his collar and shoulder insignia.

    Skipper told basically everything about the 2nd picture but let me add some info about the 3 badges of the second person. The first one is a Ground Assault Badge of the Luftwaffe, the second is Luftwaffe paratrooper badge and the third one is probably a silver Wound Badge.
    The third person is wearing a black Wound Badge as Skipper said. He also has an Infantry Assault Badge.
    The 4th person is wearing an SA Sports Badge and probably a Golden Party Badge above it. Golden Party Badge was awarder for being one of the first 100,000 Nazi Party members.

    Here are a few links of SS, Luftwaffe and Heer ranks and insignias, I hope they will be useful for you.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Heer_(1935%E2%80%931945)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Waffen-SS
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Luftwaffe_(1935%E2%80%931945)

    Good luck with your History degree.
     
  6. j.parker6

    j.parker6 New Member

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    Thanks a lot, cleared a lot of the ambiguity for me.

    My grandfather said one of them lost a leg during the war so that was most likely the Panzerman, as I believe he is also in the photo of the 3 wounded men walking in the street.

    Thanks for clearing up the role of the Clerk, his Collartab confused me. Is it possible for him to be part of it as he has the Bronze SS/SA fitness badge? i know the badge got opened up to other servicemen at some point.

    Ill see what I can do about the images, a few of them seem to be so much smaller, even though on my computer they are exactly the same size.

    Will try to edit them by tomorrow, (10th Jan) for you to get a better look.

    Thanks a lot :)
     
  7. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Glad I could help. The fitness badge was indeed awarded to many. Note the NSDAP member pin, which was born by office workers rather than combatant units. Political opinions were important behind the front but mostly far from welcome in the trenches, except of course for Waffen SS units but they had they own symbols and did not really need to tell the world they were actually member of the party (oh really? ) . As to the Panzer unit remember there is an "if" (Panzer crews had black uniforms for example) , but I'm thinking of a Panzergrenadier as well. I'll tell you more when I see the wounded soldiers with more details.. The wounded man walks with crutches and could have be your relative along with two other wounded soldiers on leave (oen has a walking stick too).
     
  8. YugoslavPartisan

    YugoslavPartisan Drug

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    My guess is that it wasn't the Panzerman because he has a Black Wound Badge which means he was wounded once or twice in combat or was frostbitten. It was probably a guy that is sitting on his right because he has a Silver Wound Badge. Silver Wound Badge was awarded to soldiers who were wounded three or four times, or suffered loss of a hand, foot or eye from hostile action (also partial loss of hearing), facial disfigurement or brain damage via hostile action.
     
  9. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Good point, I will be able to tell more when I have better quality pictures.
     
  10. j.parker6

    j.parker6 New Member

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    Here are what I hope are larger and more detailed pictures.

    Ive named them all so that should make things slightly easier for everyone.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. j.parker6

    j.parker6 New Member

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    Finally, here is the Walking Wounded image.

    Apologies for the poor quality of the image.
     

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  12. j.parker6

    j.parker6 New Member

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    Update:

    The Fallschirmjager was part of the 4th Fallschirmjager division based on his cap badge.

    The older gentleman on the right may be a customs officer?
     
  13. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Picture one, the Sports badge is an early model (1935-1939) . The Fallschirmjäger probably served in italy and has certainly some combat experience bases on his awards, so the Gothic line combats would be a nice lead

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Parachute_Division_(Germany)


    I confirm the soldier on pic 2 is wearing a Waffenrock (parade jacket) . It appears to have the white vertical Wehrmacht cuff stripes.

    The Flieger in picture 4 is obviously a young cadet with the lowest rank possible .It seems he has worn his uniform for a family picture purpose. If Iwere his officer Iwouldn't have accapted the way his shirt under his Fliegerblouse is showing. His tie was fiwed hastely and even his blouse is not balanced. Let's consider the fact he could have red collar tabs instead of yellow in which case he was Flak. This makes me thin the picture is from 1943-1944

    Picture 5 (the soldier posing in full gear ) is an early war picture based on the double decal M-1935 (the national decals were mostly removed after 1943) .

    Picture : six you should be able to identify the city thanks to the city gate in the back . There are also many shop names and swastika flags on the wall. It obvioulsy is a German garrison city. The two soldier with canes both have the wounded badge and , I don't think there is one with a wooden leg (see articulations) .
     
  14. YugoslavPartisan

    YugoslavPartisan Drug

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    They both have a Black Wound Badge so probably none of them had a wooden leg.
     
  15. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Yes this confirms the soldier who lost his leg is not on this picture, or at least that he did not lose his leg this time.
     
  16. YugoslavPartisan

    YugoslavPartisan Drug

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    Yes that's true.
     
  17. j.parker6

    j.parker6 New Member

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    Well I will see what I can do to locate the city, might take a while haha, ive got some diaries and things being sent over from Germany so should have some luck.

    Is there anywhere in particular within Germany that has records I could access, or are records for different divisions spread out? I have been on the archive website etc. but had trouble as my German is minimal and im having to translate pages.

    The funding will allow me to visit Bavaria (where my family are from) as well as any other places related to them, although im not to sure what would be best, any particular places you guys think would be good?

    The total is about £2k so the more Information i present along with the reasoning for visiting certain places, the more places I can travel to. Obviously it helps if I know if these places exist haha. Google can only get me so far sadly.

    Thanks in advance,

    James
     
  18. YugoslavPartisan

    YugoslavPartisan Drug

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    I really can't help you with German records but if you know which city/village in Bavaria is your family from you can contact the city/village library or archive for more info. The language barrier is the problem...

    Which city/village are they from? I'm curious because I went to Bavaria once.
     
  19. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    As a matter of fact the sign on the very left could be the two last letters from "ULM" which is in Bavaria. If you need help with German we have plenty members who speak it including myself.
     
  20. j.parker6

    j.parker6 New Member

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    Yes it is! Ive just googled "Ulm City Gate" and there are many similarities, I'll do some research tomorrow and figure out where they're from etc.

    Thanks for the info Skip!
     

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