Science fiction AFVs

I think the mine theory is quite feasible, actually. Something in the general weight class of an AT-AT could set off an ordinary mine from miles away by simply walking at it. If you have mines that are triggered by the vibrations sent through the ground by Walkers' steps, then these could destroy the entire invading force. For example:

-They could blow holes deep enough to stop AT-ATs or their smaller cousins from crossing; the trench theory, activated by the mine theory.

-They could, if they are large enough, fatally damage an AT-AT or topple it by their sheer blast. At least the smaller AT-STs can be destroyed thusly. And if mines strike two legs of one AT-AT it will come down.

-If there is a sufficient field of mines, then whatever travels with the big monsters or whatever descends from them will be killed or destroyed. The tremble of the Walkers' pace will make the ground underneath them a true inferno.

 

Hmm I can help feeling your being optimistic about very tall rather narrow walkers ability to stay on its feet. However since we don't have real one to try out :lol: we'll have to agree to disagree

 

Trouble is, organising & laying such a minefield would take ages!
Plus the design, production & purchasing of enough mines to make it worthwhile could well be beyong the Rebels' means.

Is a nice image, but largely pointless. yes, you'd kill off the AT-STs, but your troopers just wait until the explosions die down and then leave the AT-AT

Really, all you would want is anti-AT-AT mines. Every other vehicle can be dealt with by other means.

 

They can get starships and fighters but not dynamite? :-?

Seriously have the mines set to when pretty much stood directly on. You'd want to be able to blast out a crater that effects both legs at the same time. If the ground gives way under both legs the thing is going to tumble forward. The AT-AT probably isn't totalled but it is off the board as far as the assault goes. The smaller stuff isn't a big deal. The fixed defences can probably hold them off for long enough. The AT-AT's are the boys that you really have to keep at a distance

 

:roll: No mine in the Star wars universe is that big. And it wouldn't be very easy to knock over something with a ground pressure as high as an AT-AT.

You also seem to be forgetting the fact that the Imperial Navy is up there in orbit. They would spot such an immensely pointless trap before they even put the Walkers down.

You also seem to forget that Kneeling and getting up are part of a Walkers design.

You also seem to forget that Walkers have at the very least 17.28 kilometers range.

 

As I see it, however, the center of gravity of the AT-AT (and also of the AT-ST) is very high, so it would not need to be rbought much out of balance in order to fall. This makes it less capable of entering sloping terrain.

 

I'll take to work through the counter arguements in no particullar order.

Okay lets assume our AT-AT stands on our mine. Lets assume it has enough mass to not to be shifted when the mine goes off. Even if the AT-AT doesn't move the ground (or ice) around the mine will be blasted out so suddenly you have a limb thats standing on fresh air. If you want to be really clever put in a delay of one or two seconds so the AT-AT has lifted its other leg to take a step forward.

The fleet will spot the trap from orbit? How? Lets not go down the Star Trek route of 'we have magic scanners we invented five minutes ago for this very purpose'

Secondly this isn't a trap its area denial. The AT-AT isn't going to be able to traverse certain areas anyway so you use your mine fields to block the remaining lines of approach.

Kneeling is part of the design. As we have already covered an AT-AT is a big bit of kit. Getting up or down is going to a careful operation with everything in its place. I think the idea that it can clamber back up after taking a tumble is a bit hopeful. Even its ok what about the guys inside?

17.28Km range? Yes but line of sight only. I don't have to knock you down I just have keep you piddling around looking for a way in.[/quote]

 

So do we agree that having a 'minefield' in selected areas to inconvenience the AT-ATs would serve well enough to slow down any assault?

Keeping the shield generators out of line of sight from the AT-ATs is also desireable.

I would recommend having the minefield cut in half by the base's shield - the AT-ATs hit the minefield, can go no further. Not without unacceptable risk. Any attempt at long-range blasting is foiled by the shield. Any attempt to blast the minefield away by the fleet up in orbit would only take out half the mines...

Danyel? I know you aren't convinced about such mines existing, but are there any other ( ) big flaws in that?

 

Why are we so eagerly trying to destroy At-Ats? It just struck me that all we are doing in this topic is trying to find a way to bring down a walker. Not that we don't bring up inventive and expensive schemes that exploit all possible weaknesses in the design of the AT-AT, but seriously, what are the odds that any such monster is going to be fighting you?

Instead of evaluating the pros and cons of building and using such a vehicle, we're merely discussing how to destroy it.

 

My estimate would be around 1:5...

 

Walkers

The obvious down side of walkers is that legs are going to be wildly more complicated than really any other form of locomotion.

I can't really imagine large scale walker ever seeing the light of day. Any such machine is likely to stand out on the battlefield and that hasn't been a good idea for a very long time. Any piece of equipment will occasionally be damaged or simply break down, even the heaviest real world tank can be towed but a walker will either have to be dragged, picked up and carried or repaired in situ.

I think small scale walker are more of a posiblity. When I say small scale I mean up to twice human sized. Should be able to go to most of the places an infantryman can. Could be armoured sufficently to make it immune to small arms fire yet enough firepower to be a danger to infantry and tanks. They could be very useful for urban combat where traditionally tanks haven't been much use

 

But such a small walker could simply be hauled down by a few people on the second floor, by throwing a rope over it and pulling. It's a nice idea, but I just don't think the enormous complications and vulnerability of walking technology are ever going to make a walking AFV a reality.

And the humongous Star Wars walking machines remind me of the largest tank ever thread we had here not so long ago. The Russian WW1 monster, on two giant front wheels and a rear wheel compartment, had a comparable size to AT-ATs and its 'legs' looked vulnerable already.

 

Ah, but the AT-ATs sheer size and armour do make it practically invulnerable - remember the inability of the Rebel artillery to make any impression at all, not even on the highly vulnerable knee joints.

Anything that big (and not spindly like the Tsar tank) is automatically proof against much firepower from sheer size.

And they are very intimidating - a remorseless machine/animal thing walking towards you, and there is nothing you can do to stop it...

 

Remember the Prince of Wales, the Bismarck, the USS Arizona? They were all huge, well-armoured, extremely heavily armed, protected on all sides, invulnerable as their contemporaries put it. They were all taken out by small aircraft throwing relatively small bombs down at them.

Just noting that even very large and intimidating things have their weaknesses. One just has to find it. What if the Rebels, over time, reinvent the APCR round and shoot all they have into the knees of an AT-AT? Or any other way to dispatch it. It just needs to be found.

 

Yes, but they all had to float...

Sorry, yes, point taken.
But it would take time & resources, neither of which the Rebels possess...

 

I was going to make the same point but you got in ahead of me.

Sound like doing things to hard way to me. Beside a small biped design stands a better chance of surviving the fall and getting back up. We're not trying to build and indestructible wonder weapon (it will never exist) but some thing that can give all likely opponents a run for their money.

In 1916 the Mk1 tank would have seemed like an AT-AT, immune to what the average soldier was packing. No proper counter to them existed and where they were taken out it was by frantic improvisation.

If you have something nasty I will look for and find a counter

 

Frantic improvisation? The Germans just let their artillery rain down upon the tanks to clear them. It worked well enough. But hey! Who would have expected them to find a solution that fast? You are right about them seeming like invulnerable machines.

 

Any radically new weapon is likely to go through four stages.

1) The Devil is coming! Run Away! (this might only last a few minutes)
2) Quick shoot everything at it in the hopes that something works!
3) Aha ha! Know your weakness, eat this scum!
4) Here comes the enemy with old wonder weapon integrated with other units.

And reset to 1 for next wonder weapon.

 

Good call Ebar!

Watch any 'horror' film (Alien is a classic example, as is Starship Troopers).
One beast instills horror, leaves a trail of devestation, and is finally killed after much hard combat. By the end of the film the beasts are being slaughtered by the dozen.

Heck, for a more real example, try the T-34!

 

The missing scene from starship trooper

Officer type: Men we have invented a new weapon.

Canon fodder: (insert something suitably gung-ho here)

Officer type: It will intergrate with your existing weapon and double your effective killing range.

Canon fodder: (insert something suitably gung-ho here)

Officer type: Its called a bayonet!

Canon fodder: (insert something suitably gung-ho here)



Those guys really would have been better off flintlock muskets! :kill: