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Sherman Firefly

Discussion in 'Modelling' started by Thorvir, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. Thorvir

    Thorvir New Member

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    Hey, here's a couple pics of a model I did recently. It's for a wargame, and though I really didn't care all that much about being historically accurate (I'm not a rivet-counter when it comes to these things), I did remain mindful about it. I'm posting it here just to get some honest thoughts about what I could do in the future, if I were to do another one, to make it a bit more historically accurate. Not necessarily any new models for this game (Tanks! by GF9), but if I were to sit down and do some serious modelling. Thanks.

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  2. Thorvir

    Thorvir New Member

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  3. Owen

    Owen O

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    Nice to see a new clean vehicle but the tracks wouldn't be rusty.
    Also 74 on red/blue is for a Royal Artillery Field Regiment in an Armoured Division, they didn't have Fireflies.
    Should be a red square with either 51 52 or 53.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Thorvir

    Thorvir New Member

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    Gotcha. I was very conservative with the weathering, so I wouldn't mess it up. It's just a slightly bit dirtier than what those pics shows.

    As for 74....I used the transfers provided with the Comet squadron box set from Flames of War. I'm guessing that the 74 didn't use Comets, either? :)

    Sad thing is, though, I can't change it to the proper one (51 or 52) without major reworking, and I don't want my new tanks not to match. OCD sucks sometimes. But my next tank is an Achilles. They work in a Royal Artillery Field Regiment, right? If so, I'll keep using the 74 and just say this Firefly was on temporary loan for a couple of missions.

    Thank you very much for the input! By the way, I researched and never did find a distinct pattern for putting on spare tracks to act as armor. And as for being rusty, I like the contrast between colors (hull and tracks). This is a gaming piece, after all. Future tanks, for serious modelling and display, will be done up as correctly as possible.
     
  5. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    As a non-rivet-counter myself, I thought your model was pretty good !

    I'll just mention here for anyone who browses into this thread that - so far - there's only one detailed book about the Firefly ( which is odd, considering that the Firefly was a significant weapon in the NW Europe campaign ). This is Mark Hayward's 'Sherman Firefly' ( Barbarossa Books, 2001 ISBN 0-9538777-2-8 ). Surely overdue for a reprint ? Anyhow, if you see a reasonably-priced copy - grab it.....
     
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  6. Owen

    Owen O

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    No, as a self propelled anti-tank gun they'd be in an Anti-Tank Regiment, RA

    Field Regiments had 25 Pounders, either towed or SP.
     
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  7. Thorvir

    Thorvir New Member

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    I will look for it after Christmas, thanks!
     
  8. Thorvir

    Thorvir New Member

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    Excellent, and thank you very much!
     
  9. Thorvir

    Thorvir New Member

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    I've another question, not directly related to this model, but I've been having a bit of a difficult time painting camo patters for British and US vehicles. How often were they actually used in Europe, and which ones were consistently used? Thanks again.
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/
    is a very good visual reference.

    Of course, publisher Squadron/Signal has a ton of books out there for visual reference. You can probably find several on the net in PDF format.

    Although, I don't see the British and Americans making to much use of camouflage as the Germans did.
     
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  11. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    As a game piece it's pretty good, some details are overthick on the base model, which is inevitable as it's obviously not intended to be a showpiece and "to scale" details would not survive on the table top. My approach to historical modelling was to start with a couple of pictures of the real thing (individual tank in this case) and then working the model to fit it, it helped a lot to focus and get details rights.
     
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  12. Thorvir

    Thorvir New Member

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    Well, it is a small scale model (1/100? 15mm?) so the details aren't going to be as crisp or accurate. I can live with that. I also don't have a lot of space to set up big models, so for me, the smaller the better. I do come from a miniature background (usually fantasy miniatures and some sci-fi), so my core approach to models like this will always be similar to how I approach miniatures. I'm too old to change too many things up now.

    I do look at some historical pictures of tanks to get a general idea of assembly, but most tank pics from WWII are black and white, so accurate pics for painting aren't as common. Still, though, it's a good representation in my opinion. Just have to decide whether I'm changing the numbers on it to something more accurate, or to leave it as it is.
     
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  13. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Martin Bull and TOS commented on ur thread. ..WW2F royalty...voted
     
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  14. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    This may be pedantic, and its your model painted for a wargame, so you are the only person to please.

    The combination of tac signs all identify specific vehicles, many of which all look the same from the outside. They each refer to a unique group of people.

    Tac sign 74 was used by the 55th (West Somerset yeomanry) Field Regiment which supported 32 Guards Brigade, the infantry Brigade in the Guards Armoured Division. They were equipped with 25 pounder towed equipment.

    The red triangle on the side of the tank turret was a squadron identifier. "A" Squadron" These weren't generally applied to artillery vehicles in WW2.

    Here is an image of a Sherman OP tank used by tac sign 76 of the Guards Armoured Division. The photo was taken in June In England with the waterproofing fitted to the tank. This is the battery commander's tank of 130 Battery of 153rd (Leicestershire) Yeomanry Regiment RA. They were the SP artillery Regiment in the division and supported 5th Guards Armoured Brigade.
    [​IMG]

    The "X " Sign tells you that this is "X-Ray" the battery Commanders vehicle. His jeep may have had a plate with X2 painted on it. The position of the red box tells you that this is BC 130 battery. If you look closely you will see that they are not wearing RA cap badges, but those of the Leicester Yeomanry, the volunteer cavelry from Leicestershire. The man on the left is the battery commander, (BC) Major Richard Hoare, (Mentioned in Dispatches). He was one of a group of Yeomany field officers who kept a "horse, dog or gun" throughout the war in the UK. There are pictures of the regiment here http://www.paoyeomanry.co.uk/PM/LYWW2RA153.htm
    Field Artillery used 75mm gun tanks or tanks which looked like them but had the gun replaced by a map table.
    The fitters welded fittings for a spare road wheel on the hull front. This seems to have been a Regimental policy as the photos of Sextons also show this.

    This unit took part in a remarkable tank battle on 3rd August 1944 when a battlegroup from II SS Corps with Panther tanks reached their gun position and were fought off with support from the M10s of Q Battery of 21 Anti tank Regiment. Tac sign 77

    So for your 17 Pounder SP (Achillies) try tac sign 77.
     
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  15. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I think it's really quite a good job you've done. The model is clearly done with some skill and looks good. The criticisms I've seen are about different insignia and not the model itself, which is the fault of the FoW people. I think I read it was a FoW model, or was it another producer?
     
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  16. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    The model is IMO extremely well executed. My impression that the insignia was hand painted by the OP. If so it's extremely well done IMO. The criticisms as to correctness were IMO intended to be positive and educational and were taken as such (not always an easy thing either). I look forward to seeing more of his work.
     
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  17. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I completely agree. More please!
     
  18. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    View attachment 25308
    hear hear - how about an Achillies SP?
    Here is one from 21 Anti tank Regiment of the Guards Armoured Division. I think this photo was taken later in Germany
     

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  19. Thorvir

    Thorvir New Member

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    Flames of War makes these kits, but they're being used for Tanks! by GF9 as well. The Sherman Firefly didn't come with transfers--I got them from the Comet squadron box from Flames of War, and just slapped on what I felt looked good. In the future, I'm going to do a bit better research, but for this specific tank, he'll be an anomaly or perhaps on loan or just a crazy cock-up from the higher-ups.

    Thanks!

    (I noticed I can only give up to 2 "likes" per day---not sure if I like that limitation at all).
     
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  20. Thorvir

    Thorvir New Member

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    That's up next. I am having a problem with which turret design to use for a British Achilles, as the kit comes with two M-10 turrets (and a turret for a Jackson). Oh, and when things settle down a bit so I can get back to painting. Sometimes it's hard to stay focused on painting. I'm disabled with Meniere's Disease, so while I have the time, I don't always have the patience nor the faculties. All of which also depresses me greatly, which only compounds the problems.

    But, yeah, an Achilles up next, and I hope to get this one spot on first try.
     

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