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Shotguns in WW2

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by scrog, Sep 1, 2001.

  1. scrog

    scrog recruit

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    I know The us army used shotguns for
    sweeping the trenches in WW1,But what about
    WW2?Where they used in europe?
    And what about the pacific?Seems to me like they would be great weapons in the island
    jungle fighting.
    Scrog
     
  2. Smoke286

    Smoke286 Member

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    I think there may have been some limited use of the shotgun in the pacific theater. (I believe I may have seen some footage of a marine firing a shotgun) But I have not heard of it being used in Europe
     
  3. John Dudek

    John Dudek Member

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    From what I have read, the USMC issued the same 12-gauge, pump, trenchguns to Marines in the Pacific Theatre of operations as their Fathers were given in World War 1. Although outlawed by the Geneva convention, they were issued and used with great success in all of the island campaigns although not to the same scale as WW1.
     
  4. panzergrenadiere

    panzergrenadiere Member

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    I was just talking to a friend of mine about ww2 shotguns a few days ago since he has one in his collection. Sadly my mind is blank right now from what information he told me. Hopefully it will come back to me.
     
  5. talleyrand

    talleyrand Member

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    Actually, I beleive they only outlawed lead shot. As long as steel shot was used I think they were technically legal.
     
  6. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    There was use of shotguns in Europe too--not for combat but for men who were guarding POWS. Ive seen several photos of 1o1st Airborne Div paras with Remington-Rand shotguns guarding German POWs. I forget the name of the book, but its a large hardcover title that just recently came out and is sold at least at Barnes and Nobles bookstores.

    In fact, one picture I remember showed a USMC Sergeat watching German POWS on some ship in the ETO.
     
  7. Miro

    Miro Member

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    When asked about shotguns in the ETO the only thing I can think of is partisan and guerrilla forces. Both my grandfathers fought with Tito's partisans in WW2 and my mom's dad started the war with a double barrelled-shotgun, which he quickly discarded for a "proper" rifle after they overran their first enemy positions. Many Italian partisans were armed with shotguns and I am sure the French 'Maquis' were, too. As for regular forces I believe the US was the only one to issue a limited amount of shotguns. Both the British and the Soviets had some stockpiled for their Home Guard/Osvoyenkhi(sp?) militia units. Maybe some German diehards used shotguns during the final days.
     
  8. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Miro :

    The German populace especially in Bayern and the Schwarzwald had the single shot Schützen rifles, double-barrel and the drilling wepaons, though they were used for hunting purposes and occasionally for self-defence. At the end of the war many US service men came away with some beautiful engraved hunting weapons. A good friend that has since passed on picked up 2 Schützen's and 1 gorgeous drilling while in Czechslovakia at the surrender.....mostly likely via Volksturm units.

    E
     
  9. Stefan

    Stefan Cavalry Rupert

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    Also, on occaision, shot guns were used by British commandos though I admit I have only read a few reports of this occuring. I suppose the fact that the Germans were supposed to shoot them rather than take them prisoners made the whole geneva convention thing a bit of a farce.
     
  10. talleyrand

    talleyrand Member

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    Again, I can find no Geneva convention passage outlawing shotguns. Only the use of lead shot.
    I know for a fact that shotguns were issued in WWI and Korea. I'm pretty sure they were issued in WWII as there was nothing stopping them.
     
  11. Smoke286

    Smoke286 Member

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    John I'm not sure that it was used with all that much effect. I can see its use during a banzai attacks,at least untill it ran out of ammo, then it would be of use only as a club. there would be no time for reloading a shotgun in those conditions.However, I read that in the jungle it was less than adequete, its shot being easily deflected by dense foiliage. Interestingly, I read a book about Marine Raiders, in it ,it said they discovered the same defeciencies with the Thompson, many Raiders traded theirs,at the first opertunity for BAR's

    [ 02 May 2002, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Billy Bones ]
     
  12. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    The only reference to shotgun use I have been able to find is an article by Joe Poyer in the American magazine 'Surplus Firearms'

    The article is titled 'US Combat Shotguns' and states that Winchester supplied, under contract to the US Government, 39,176 M-97 shotguns between '41 and '44. Many seem to have been used for Home Guard, military installation defence, aerial gunnery practice, etc.

    But Poyer goes on to say : ' Military shotguns saw extensive combat use with the Marines and Army, primarily in the Pacific theaters, but also in the China-Burma-India theater and in Europe after the invasion of Normandy '.

    I'm not a Pacific expert but I've read a lot about Europe and have never seen references to shotgun usage, or any pics.
     
  13. charlie don't surf

    charlie don't surf Member

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    I think the commandos used the winchester as well.

    regards
     
  14. FramerT

    FramerT Ace

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    Any opinions on why shotguns were not used in Europe?GI's had a couple models but were mainly Pacific theater use.Did any Axis power have one and/or why were they not popular in Europe?Seems to me they'd be handy in street fighting etc. FramerT.
     
  15. No.9

    No.9 Ace

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    It appears in house-to-house, or rather room-to-room through walls, some Soviets preferred picks and shovels to guns. They evolved a practice of smashing though and rushing in so quickly the simplest and an effective way was to dispatch the enemy with the tools already in their hands.

    The British Commandos, who did their fair share of close clearance, preferred the sub-machinegun as it held a much higher capacity magazine, was quicker to reload with a new mag, had a greater range, gave a capability to spray fire and shared common ammunition with the .45 ACP Colt pistols they carried or the widely used 9mm by many forces, (Thompsons and Stens)

    No.9
     
  16. jpatterson

    jpatterson Member

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    I was thinking, quite simply, range. It seems to me that the ranges in Europe in general would be much greater. All I can use as a reference is my Remington Model 870 Express Magnum which, if I am not mistaken, is an offshoot of a model produced by that company for use in combat. This shotgun, loaded with heavy steel or lead shot, is probably ineffective over 50 yards. With slugs one is pushing the accuracy envelope at 100 yards. Therefore, unless used in extremely close quarters, it would just be "dead weight" to carry in combat. In the jungle however, where one can often only see 10 or 20 yards, I can see an application.

    Just my opinion.

    Later
     
  17. No.9

    No.9 Ace

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  18. FramerT

    FramerT Ace

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    Thanks # 9, I went through the weapons archives before I posted but did'nt see anything about them.FramerT.
     
  19. No.9

    No.9 Ace

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    Ah well I suppose you can’t always reckon on subjects being in the most logical section? (especially with Freddy about) ;) :D

    I think in connection with the earlier posting and my ref to Viet Nam, I asked a friend who was in No.1 Commando in Burma about shotguns. He said he never used one and didn’t remember seeing any. He went on to add he wouldn’t have liked to have been armed with ‘two-shots’ [thinking of a double-barrelled gun]. Admittedly you had two shots to hand as opposed to one in an Enfield, but there were usually plenty of Thompsons and Brens around so there was rapid fire when needed. Though not used for the purpose, the Thompson had a tendency to defoliate quite well as the heavy slugs would easily break thinner branches so the whole branch disappeared instead of just the leaves. Their style was only to shoot at identified targets so they didn’t engage in random fire for effect.

    No.9
     
  20. Wolfy

    Wolfy Ace

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    I'm surprised that they weren't used more often, particularly in house clearing actions. All I know is that the US Marines had them.
     

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