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Some 8th AF books.....

Discussion in 'WWII Books & Publications' started by Martin Bull, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    It was end-of-season bargain time at Duxford last weekend.

    Bought both 1st and 2nd series of John H Woolnough's '8th AF News' for just £10 each, plus a new copy of Ivo de Jong's 'Mission 376' by Hikoki ( just £14.99 ), a first-edition of John Comer's B-17 memoir 'Combat Crew' and Eric Hammel's 'Aces Against Germany' for £5 each.

    Some nice reading for those long winter evenings looming up. I was really pleased with the two '8th AF news', I must say...... :cool:
     
  2. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    what you didn't pick up the EE English version of volume 1 JG 300 yet ? :D

    there will be time of course and I am not even sure if it is available in the UK anyway... (?)

    no doubt there will be a host of questions after reading the text, as I have some

    E ~
     
  3. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Good buys, Martin! Yvo's book should give you a very nice picture of that mission. I still haven't got the book yet myself but glanced through it. That is a darn good price!

    I have his Mission 85 book and he recently wrote the history of the 487th BG.
     
  4. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    It was there - one copy on the Aviation Bookshop stand. It looked superb but at £59.99...well, let's just say the disposable income wasn't in my pocket.... :(

    I was amazed to see Ivo de Jong's book - and several other Hikoki titles - on a 'Book Warehouse' stall at bargain prices. So was the proprietor !
     
  5. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    I'm a third of the way through 'Mission 376' and it's the most absorbing read I've had for months.

    It's done in the style of Martin Middlebrook, ie one specific day of action is selected and then described in great detail by piecing together many accounts and veterans' memories from all sides. Many, many photos from private collections are included at the appropriate places in the narrative. The result is literally 'un-put-downable' and I'd recommend it very highly indeed.

    As an aside, only the Dutch seem to be able to do this - the book is actually similar to the 'Arnhem' books published by Robert Sigmond. My admiration for these researchers is unbounded - years of patient research are involved plus incredible marshalling of the material. It is then written up - in English ! - and any financial return at the end must be minimal indeed.

    We all owe such people a great deal. [​IMG]
     
  6. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    An arm injury has temporarily reduced my mobility ( ie I'm spending a lot of time sitting on my **** ! ;) ) the upside of which is that I've been spending some serious non-guilty reading time.

    Currently ploughing through some very interesting 8th AF books and added - from Bookfinder - the '8th AF Album' to my two volumes of '8th AF News'.

    A very interesting memoir/partial Group history is Elwyn Warfle's One Lucky Bastard ( 447th BG - Rattlesden again ! ) which is superior to many memoirs - he did a lot of research for this book. It's getting hard to find, though - I got E Anglia Books' last one.

    Now I'm into Brian D O'Neill's 'Half A Wing, Three Engines And A Prayer' ( 303rd BG ) which is different in style, but equally interesting. And Amazon are doing a good deal on it just now....

    It's great that so many 8th AF veterans have felt moved to set down their experiences in recent years. I never tire of reading them and my admiration for what they experienced never wavers - if anything, it increases.....
     
  7. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    You weren't trying to ...open that wallet of yours again?! [​IMG] ;) :D :eek:
    Listen- you can't spend ten-bob notes now!
    Seriously, get well soon. [​IMG]
     
  8. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Two very fine books, Martin! I got the last one from Mr. Warfle himself! We spent quite some time writing about the Jan. 11 mission and the Piontblank operations. He suggested I turn pointblank into my research topic for University. I haven't heard from him in a long time, however.

    Brian O'Neill's book is good as well. I very much enjoyed it. Also got a great chapter on the Jan. 11 mission.

    And I agree, I love veterans memoirs above everything else. Of course, I have a soft spot for the self-published ones... Although I can very much appreciate and enjoy a well researched and written book, the memoirs take you right into the times, it seems.
     
  9. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Yes - I rate 'Stub' Warfle's book highly, it certainly gave me a good insight into events and people at Rattlesden.

    The problem with these books is, many of them contain a nice little bibliography which immediately sets you off in search of other memoirs.... :(

    ( This is probably the best thing about Amazon UK ; they stock US-published titles which are never otherwise seen in UK bookshops ).
     
  10. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Tell me about it. The last 6 months I have forced myself not to go out and look for them, although I want to. I am putting all my books (and how to get them, if possibel) on my site. But there are SO MANY I still desperately want!

    It seems especially a lot of USAAF memoires have been written.
     
  11. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    I see what you mean, Stevin - I just reached this chapter this morning and have to say it's one of the best 8th AF combat accounts I've ever read.

    I hadn't realised that this was the infamous 'Oschersleben Mission'. It makes for quite incredible reading ; my respect for 8th AF aircrew, already high, has just increased even more ( and, actually, the Luftwaffe pilots too ).

    I have very much enjoyed reading this book over the holiday period ; it's so absorbing that I feel disappointed that the end is in sight.

    Full marks to Amazon UK for stocking this revised edition at a bargain price !
     
  12. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Ah but Martin you are talking about the first Oschersleben raid of 1944, the second disaster was 7-7-44 when the two sturmgruppen unleashed their first rearward attacks against the US 8th and 15th AF's and shot down 55 Allied heavies confirmed. One ZG unit helped but in reality just gave the US fighters something to shoot at while the heavy FW's closed in with the bombers.

    Funny Brian was going to do another book on some battles of the 305th bg and the sturmgruppe. a matter that I did send him quite a bit of material on ............ such as life
     
  13. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Thanks, Erich - I hadn't realised that there were two 'Oscherslebens'.

    Strange how such names - such as Schweinfurt, Merseburg - which would otherwise be little-known, become synonymous with disaster.
     
  14. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Now on to my next one - 'Return To Base' by Jesse Richard Ellis ( 379th BG ).

    This one is rather different to the usual 8th AF memoir - Ellis' mother was French and his early education was in France, and it shows in the writing. The book is introspective and in style reminds me of Henri Barbusse' WW1 classic 'Under Fire'.

    It's rather wordy and discursive, but although Eliis just misses Schweinfurt he is on the Jan. 11, 1944 Oschersleben mission - 'the only time I felt any real panic '.

    This is also a handsomely-produced book.
     
  15. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Wow -still going...there really are an incredible number of 8th AF books out there.... :eek:

    Now I'm onto - and enjoying very much - Dale O Smith's 'Screaming Eagle - Memoirs Of A B-17 Group Commander' . There aren't many Commanding Officer memoirs and his description of the challenges of taking over the 384th BG at Grafton Underwood are deeply absorbing ; shades of 'Frank Savage' in TOCH .....
     
  16. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    That is yet another great book you are reading Martin! Dale O. Smith's recollections, I found, were very frank and honest, especially the toll the war took on his personal life.

    Smith was not uncontroversial (within his BG). As he assumed command, he, like many before and after him, adapted new tactics for his BG, which caused heavy losses on some occasions. I recently wrote about this with Ken Decker, a 384th BG historian who helped me with my website. A fascinating caracter and one of the indeed very few BG commanders who wrote a book about his wartime career.
     
  17. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    sadly the 9th AF unit that provided the intial high escort duties in Dec. 43, the 354th fg has not at all been accurately covered. Although a 9th AF fighter group it in essence was under 8th AF command in a subtle way breaking ground over the skies of Germany along with the 4th and 56th fg of the 8th.

    sorry if I took this thread off-track ......... nah
     
  18. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    It's interesting for me to have both Budd Peaslee's and Smith's books.From my recent - quite intense - 8th AF reading, I must say that the really controversial character to emerge is General Robert Travis of the 41st Combat Wing.

    I'd say that Smith was a 'Travis man' and even he is critical .. it would be a massive understatement to say that other writers are uncomplimentary. Travis seems to have had huge ambition and an ego to match.....
     
  19. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Martin, Indeed! To refer to the Jan. 11 mission once more; Gen. Robert Travis was leading the 1st BD flying lead with the 94th BG (if my memory serves me right he was the 94th CO at that time). When the recall was received, he elected to continue to the target (they were a mere 25 miles away anyway). The 94-ers were somewhat alarmed to see the BG's behind them turn around and leaving them alone (without fighter support!). What the men in the 94th did not take kindly to was the fact that this lone BG had to do a 360 over the target (Braunschweig) because the lead plane failed to see the target, while apparently all other crews in the BG did! I read several accounts and corresponded with veterans who attested to this. One navigator described the FW plant as half the size of manhattan and he was appalled when he heard that Travis decided to "go around". It is one of the few times I heard (read) profound profanity in the accounts of these veterans, who are usually extremely kind.

    This was made all the worse because the men could see dozens of German planes (mostly rocket firing zwei mots) getting ready to attack after the bombers had left the target area and the heavy flak.

    Indeed, no less than 9 94 planes were shot down and two of the three 447 BG planes that had failed to find their own BG and tagged along with the 94th. The 447th lost its CO in one of these planes.

    No wonder that the 94-ers were somewhat peeved with Gen. Travis, who, BTW, became the CO of 447 BG later in the war. Several 94 vets I corresponded with asked me if i knew what had happened to Travis. I guess they assumed some kind of action might have been taken against him, but they were surprised to hear that this mission did nothing against his career.

    Erich, for a FG as distinguished as the 354th I am amazed that there is not a fat, definitive history yet. Do you know any reason for this? In fact, this FG won the only MOH in the ETO for fighter pilots. And guess when that was won? yes, on January 11, 1944!
     
  20. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Stevin very good question about the 354th's historie. some guy who worked on a P-38 book I was in touch some 7 years ago and he had plans, but nothing was put into production. Guess the vets feel attending the dwindling sized reunions is enough for them. But the history is indeed full of exciting history that should be shared. Ospreys attempt I suppose maybe the book then ... ?
     

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