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Some help needed with my new set of items to a Kriegsmarine Lieutenant!

Discussion in 'Other Militaria' started by dengwill, Mar 11, 2009.

  1. dengwill

    dengwill Member

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    Hi, I picked up this nice set of items to a Lt. Theodor Bott who was KIA in Tat, Hungary in 1945.

    It includes his personal copy of Mein Kampf, his EK2, Bronze Sports badge, photos, plus various documents including the Letter to his wife, action report, marriage certificate and even his 1911 birth certificate! Comments are welcome ;)

    After reading through, I'd love to know what happened in Tat in 1945. I understand it was during the russian advance but can't be sure what the Navy were doing. Also, where can I find out about Theodor Bott, i.e. the ship he was on, what division/regiment? (I'm not hot on kriegsmarine) and other information?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated! (photos below)

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  2. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Congrats on some very nice KM piece's

    first can you post a scan of his after action report ?

    also he may not have served on a ship unless so stated, he could of had land duty such as a marine Artillery unit which could of been port defense Flak.

    As for Tat Hungary do wonder if he was moved to the area with a different active duty or as Land based KM Infantrie.

    Erich ~
     
  3. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Nice grouping! seeing this ought to get Herr active here ;-))
     
  4. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    dengwill also can you post a close up of the two page photo section ?, want to see what it is read around the Eagle stamp plus the letter - shrift/writing on the page

    Erich ~
     
  5. AndyPants

    AndyPants Ace

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    these are some very nice items dengwill, you did well in getting them!
     
  6. dengwill

    dengwill Member

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    Thanks for the help!

    Erich, I'll get some scans done for you tommorow. Luckily the pictures aren't attached, I just put them there for show :D My Grandad did actually do a translation of the front for me, so I'll type that up if you want?

    As for the report, I have something from an officer which I can't translate at all and something from the Bavarian Red Cross, so I'll scan them in too.
     
  7. Herr

    Herr Member

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    Excellent find !

    Yes it woke me up Carl :)

    He started out as a Coastal artillery officer , and in the other picture his career patch seems to be sailor career ? Unless he got demoted and grew bit more hair :) My first thought would be Marine Infanterie.
    I too am looking forward to close ups and good scans of the items !

    Interesting grouping !

    Regards

    Herr
     
  8. dengwill

    dengwill Member

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    Here we are! Sorry it's taken a bit longer, I'm slow at scanning :p

    Erich, here's the stamp and the writing:

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    [​IMG]

    Herr, thanks for the info on his career patches, is the coastal artillery the star or the wreath? I've scanned in what I think is a report of some description along with its copy of a copy. I also noticed some sort of grenadier regiment being mentioned?

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    Finally, these Bavarian Red Cross things (dated 1946) I have no idea about, what could they be?

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    As I was scanning mein kampf, I thought why not show you the photo page of the man himself:

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    I look forward to some comments and replies!
     
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  9. dengwill

    dengwill Member

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    Double posted - ignore this!
     
  10. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Very moving and historical documents!


    The Bavarian Red Cross letter is an answer to Frau Brott who was looking for Herr Brott. It tells where he was fallen ( south from Szomor) and where he is buried (Tat , 9km from Estergom) . It also tells when he died (26th Feb 1945). It tells he is no more officially listed as mia and that a death certificate is now available.

    The letter from 1946 to the Red cross is a thank you letter with a last request: she is asking the names of his former Kmaraden who were on the same m.i.a. list as her husband so that she can get in touch with the relatives.


    The hand written letter is a very moving letter from his Commander (A Major) to the widow, who tells her how his Kamarad will be missed by his unit.


    The answer to this letter letter tells that Hermann Fey survived and was taking care of the mia lists of this unit and they provide his address

    Hope this helps
     
  11. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    dengwill

    I have a severe migrane but will say wonderful docs with some interesting signatures.

    note the stamp it is marked from Greece in August of 1943, this guy has been everywhere and it just almost confirms to me he was from a land based unit possibly as Heer points out marine Artillery-shore protection and then in a marine Infantrie unit constantly moved according to the KM wishes.

    Heer is pointing out your second pic on the right if you can sacne that as a closeup his lower left arm has a round patch in dark navy blue wool with a yellow flying bomb indicating a career in Marine Artillery. In the first pic of him he seems to have advanced and I cannot tell what awards-medal/badges he is wearing except for the EK 2 and I am guessing his sports badge, the other one may indeed be the Kriegsmarine Flak/Artillery badge again indicating his continual service of shore protection. Can you post a larger scan of the photo as well..........

    when I can read more clearly and I cannot at this time will be back to decipher the hand written note, although Skip has the red cross letter under control
     
  12. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Heh heh, im glad it did because i like hearing your and Erichs take on things ;-))
     
  13. dengwill

    dengwill Member

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    Thanks Skipper, that's very interesting! I'd love to get the whole thing translated, I wonder how much it would cost!?

    Which scan is the reply to the Major? And these items actually came from Hermine herself, why do you think she had both the handwritten and typed up versions?

    Erich, I've had a good look at the photos and can't seem to find a third award, I understand you have a migraine though, so I'll let you off :p!!!

    Will post the photos anyway and I also have his death certificate, his birth certificate and the couple's marriage certificate!
     
  14. Herr

    Herr Member

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    a very nice grouping !

    Seems Herr Bott fell while serving in the grenadier regiment 284.
    That concludes that he definatly was used as infantry as so many other KM sailors.
    He was shot in the heart !

    The pictures of him, on the right, you can see a shell with wings on his sleeve, which is marine artillery, the left picture it has been replaced with a star on the sleeve, which is sailor career. He also advanced from Leutnant zur See to Oberleutnant zur See.
    In that sailor career photo, I think Erich, it is his DRL sportsbadge he is wearing.

    I think the 2 letters from her, handwritten and typed, that handwritten was a test one to make sure all is in there she wants to know and the typed one a copy of the typed one she sent.
    Common to do that, I used to do that for school in typing letters :)

    The last scan of The Bavarian Red Cross letter states he fell south of Szomor, in Hungary on 26/02/1945. Rough translation :

    That he is buried in soldierscemetary in Tat, 9 km west of Esztergom, in Hungary.
    This death notice we gathered of the wounded/dead list, which we got from a previous member who belonged to the Regimental Staff.
    Further information is not known to us.

    For the issue of a death certificate you would have to go to the local civil registrar.

    For your painfull loss we give our sincere condolences.

    --

    Very interesting grouping you got !

    Regards

    Herr
     
  15. Herr

    Herr Member

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  16. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Herr beat me to it. I was going to look up info about that Regiment for you if you had been interested?

    Thanks Herr and good going ;-))
     
  17. AndyPants

    AndyPants Ace

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    wonderful stuff guys.........and a pleasure to read!
     
  18. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    The widow did not answer to the Major , but to the Red Cross Comitty, this is the 1946 letter from her.


    If I had more time I'd translate the details for you , but the best I can do for now is the summary . It took me some time, mainly to read the letters and find who wrote what and when. It is very easy to translate though.
     
  19. dengwill

    dengwill Member

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    Thanks guys, I really appreciate all of the help and the time you've taken to study it. It's really good to know more about his career and his involvement!

    Herr, you said "I think the 2 letters from her, handwritten and typed..." but aren't they both from the Major? This is why I am confused as to why she had both, seeming as they are both stamped officially and surely only one should have reached her?

    I've just looked at the back of the photo of him as an Oberleutnant, and it's dated Christmas 1943 and in Greece. So I've pieced together all of the information you've given me and got this:


    He started out as a Coastal Artillery Leutnant um See, probably in Greece.

    Between or with a promotion, he joined the Marine Infantry as Oberleutnant um See and was awarded the Iron Cross at some point.

    He was then moved to Hungary around 1945, still as an Infantry man and put in the 284th Grenadier Regiment (part of the 96th Infantry Division). Whilst the Russians were advancing, he was unfortunately shot in the heart and said to be MIA. In 1945, his commanding officer sent a letter to his wife about his efforts.

    After the war, Hermine received a letter from the Red Cross confirming that he was now proclaimed KIA and was buried in the soldiers cemetery in Tat (last scan). She then replied asking for the addresses of other members of his unit in which she received Hermann Fey as a contact (first red cross scan).

    There we go!

    I wonder if she ever traveled to Hungary and visited his grave? I heard that Hermine recently passed away in the Isle of Wight, so she must have moved there after the war.

    Its really nice to have all of the correspondence and the various certificates all related to Lt. Bott, and again, a really big thanks for helping me out!!!

    Herr, those links are a nice addition too, have you been able to find out any more about Grenadier Regiment 284 specifically?
     
  20. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Did I miss something or is there only one letter from the Major from March 1945?
    Mor einfo for you : Gefechstand = frontline position (probably Hungary at the time) .
    The Regiment Führer has nothing to do with Hitler , it simply means regiment Commander (actually leader) and the 1943 stamp from the SüdOst front on the other document is from Greece (Griechenland) .
     

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