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"Son of Barbarossa" or "S.o.B." - a What-If where Barbarossa is made to work.

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Eastern Front & Balka' started by Marmat, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    No they dont they are two separate things.
    Will lack of air superiority make tanks sink?
    Not that they lacked air superiority at all in Russia.
     
  2. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    If Leningrad is not taken on the march it would be best surrounded and laid siege too if Moscow is to be assaulted as well in my opinion.
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Indeed they did. They failed when the Soviets refused to collapse as Hitler thought they would.
     
  4. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Ill say it again, Details!!! Saying it does not make it possible nor does it guarantee it.
     
  5. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    Do you not think 6 weeks extra hard ground campaign time would allow the Germans to close the pincer round Moscow?
     
  6. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    The advance did not fail however.
    It was a great success .
     
  7. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Are you trying to master the art of makeing straw man arguments?
     
  8. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    Except that it was not 6 full weeks as you seem to ignore the early rain that occurred right around the time of the Balkans campaign.
     
  9. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevant :Barbarossa failed in the summer.
    BTW:the plan was not to advance by fighting,but to destroy the Red Army on the border,and then to advance without fighting to the Urals .
    All that happened after august was meaningless:if the SU was not defeated in the summer,it could not be defeated in the autumn.
     
  10. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    NO
     
  11. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    ??? an advance that lead to one of the worst national defeats in history. You have a warped definition of success. The advance did hault in August. It started up again September but faltered again in October. After that there were still limited success but there were also defeats and more haults and it ended with the Red Army in Berlin.
     
  12. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    It wasn't so much early rain as late rain that meant the mud and flood season lasted later into the spring than normal. You are correct though that it wouldn't have been 6 full weeks. It's not even clear that it would have been 2 full weeks.
     
  13. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    So we have established that the advance was not stopped by the Soviets until December 1941 well done.
     
  14. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    Would have been 4-6 weeks according to Hitler, Churchill, Eden and others.
     
  15. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    To the A-A line actually not the Urals.
    However the war could have been won still depending on other enemies faced, starting factors etc not that year but later.
     
  16. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    Think about it.
    The extra 6 weeks hard ground campaign time would fall at the back end of the year before the October rain.
     
  17. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    I am thinking about it, You keep ignoring that in the time frame for the Balkans campaign there was bad rain in Russia, Then they had more bad weather in October and so on.. At best there may have been an extra 4 weeks but that does not guarantee the Soviets lose.
     
  18. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    The extra 4-6 weeks could preempt the October rain.
     
  19. von_noobie

    von_noobie Member

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    And you seem to totally ignore the late spring rains which fell around May wasn't it? Hence those 4-6 weeks would be more like 2-4 weeks and that is assuming the ground isn't still muddy (Heavy tanks and muddy ground makes for a very back breaking time trying to push the tank free :().
     
  20. British-Empire

    British-Empire Member

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    Even if it is delayed 2 weeks that still allows 4 weeks extra summer campaign time which may well be enough to allow the pincers to close on Moscow before the October rains.
     

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