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Spain joins Axis

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by dasreich, Aug 10, 2002.

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  1. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    B.E., please leave the cake a bit longer in the oven, as it is completely half-baked as it stands.

    Even if Spain entered on the Axis side and did block the Gibraltar Strait, it wouldn't make much difference to the outcome of the war in the Western Desert, as in any case supplies to Egypt were already coming in from the Red Sea, taking the long detour by Cape Good Hope. So no difference there.
     
  2. Ironcross

    Ironcross Dishonorably Discharged

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    So what. Had South Africa joined the axis, Germany still could have won the war.:D
     
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Yes, but end of Malta though, I suppose....?!
     
  4. Hawkerace

    Hawkerace Member

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    Probably a evacuation of the island and then a blockade like the English channels when it would be occupied by its Italian/German aggressors.
     
  5. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Yes, Kai, but the fall of Malta would mean less losses to Axis shipping, not less supplies to the Allies.

    Now what Ironcross is saying does have a grain of truth :) As a matter of fact, IIRC some of the SAF used to be Ju-86. So...
     
  6. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Another interesting point is that if Spain did join the Axis, this would put Portugal in a very difficult position with a belligerent across the border.

    Portugal in 1942 ceded rights to build bases in the Azores Islands, which were very important to the Battle of the Atlantic. At worst a belligerent Spain would take this as a casus belli and invade. This would likely mean immediate defeat to Portugal, whose land forces were weak and inexperienced (manuals of the time refer to WW1), facing a battle hardened enemy.

    Actually the Portuguese were all the time scared sheetless the Spanish would invade anyhow.

    This would imply at least (I think) the Allies occupying the Azores and Madeira too, at least for the resorts :)

    Jan7, as a Spaniard what do you think?
     
  7. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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    Follow, I bring my answer in Spanish. I offer my text to Za, for the correct translate of my expressions.....

    Querido Za: Esta es mi opinión. Está escrita en español. Te ruego se la traduzcas al inglés a los compañeros del WW2F, tú sabrás traducir los matices de mis expresiones.


    En mi modesta opinión, si España se hubiera unido al Eje, Alemania habría ganado la SGM.
    Posiblemente Hitler hubiera desplegado a los soldados de sus tres Ejércitos, Aire, Mar y Tierra por todos nuestros territorios, incluidos Marruecos, las Islas Canarias y Guinea Ecuatorial y otros extra peninsulares y evitando a un ejército clasista y muy poco eficaz como era el Español después de nuestra Guerra Civil.

    Todos ellos se hubieran convertido en una inmensa y extensa plataforma muy adecuada para la observación y hostigación del enemigo.

    En estas circunstancias, El Reino Unido podría haber sido rodeado, aislado con mucha más facilidad y vencido.


    Jan.
     
  8. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Here's Babelfish's take on what you had to say, Juan. Miguel will still have to work on it some.
     
  9. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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    Many thanks, Jeff!.
    My petition at Za is for any person who know better than me the English and for answer his previous MP.

    And you, that know both languages, interpreted my words very well.



    Jan.
     
  10. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Oh, please! Who needs Babelfish when you have a polyglot aboard! :D

    In any case, it was hard for me to avoid the "tradutore = tradittore" syndrome (translator = traitor), as I don't agree for reasons I said in posts above.

    And in the reply there is no mention of Spain's intentions towards Portugal, maybe to in order to spare my feelings :D
     
  11. Jan7

    Jan7 Member

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    The Spain's intentions (Franco) towards Portugal I think that are very simply: Not exist. He went a militar, not a conqueror......


    Jan.
     
  12. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    Since when those are mutually exclusive? And why wouldn't El Caldillo (as PzJgr called him :D ) want to have a safe back while joining the over-the-Pyrenees Axis, considering Portugal's obvious pro-Allies tendencies post-Stalingrad?

    Oh, considering the post-Stalingrad point, and how long would that alliance last? Remember that was the time División Azul was pulled back :D Talk about fair weather friends!
     
  13. Falcon Jun

    Falcon Jun Ace

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    Interesting posts and points to consider, guys.
    What I want to know is if the Spanish people would accept or are willing to join the war. They just went through a grueling civil war with many dead on both sides. What was the prevailing sentiment at that time? I checked on my Time mag capsules for any news reports about this, I couldn't find any.
     
  14. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Not only that, but you speak several languages!:p
     
  15. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    You have to watch me twiddling my thumbs backwards!

    There was the Iberian Pact, a friendship and non-aggression treaty between Salazar and Franco on the March 17th 1939 (today!!!) at the end of the Sp. Civil War and when new war clouds were gathering. Two protocols were added (1940 and 1948).

    I wonder how this pact would fare in the light of changing circumstances.

    Full text is here, in Portagee-speak, including Adolf's Directive 18, Operation Felix - Intervention in the Peninsula (Gibraltar, Portugal, etc.)

    http://www.areamilitar.net/analise/analise.aspx?NrMateria=38&p=9

    Now get your Babelfish out, coz I'm not going to translate all this!

    Key sentence: "Italian intervention is not envisaged" ... :)
     
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