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Spotter Planes and Marking Targets For USAAF Fighter Bombers?

Discussion in 'Aircraft' started by ww24interest, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. ww24interest

    ww24interest Member

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    What was the method for US liaison high wing planes marking targets for allied fighter bombers like P-47?

    Is it true that some of the J3 Cubs and grasshoppers had 2 radios 1 ground radio and 1 air radio because apparently ground could not talk to air pilots, unless you had an actual air radio on the ground in a jeep. one to hear about enemy armor from ground then to relay it to the fighters with their air radio? Would the observation planes shoot a colored smoke rocket at the area after learning the location from ground units, then the p-47 pilots would see it and attack that area? Do I have this down right?
     
  2. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Forward air controlling during WW2 for US forces was pretty much a ground-based operation. The small observer type aircraft where involved in spotting of targets were doing so for artillery, not CAS. The use of rockets fired from observer aircraft did not come about until the Korean War and then only on a limited basis, most FAC was still ground based. Increased use of the technique came about during the Vietnam War.
     
  3. ww24interest

    ww24interest Member

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    so if you say ground units marked targets for allied aircraft to strafe/bomb what would be the method of marking it? colored smoke and motor?
     
  4. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    British artillery used red marker shells. Yellow smoke was supposed to be the standard to identify friendly forces.

    Remarkably this was used by night and day. On 8th August 1944 the Op Totalize fireplan used marker shells to indicate the targets for close air support by the four engined bombers of Bomber command within 3,000 yards of friendly troops. The concept was tried out two nights before for a skeptical air force.
     
  5. Biak

    Biak Boy from Illinois Staff Member

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    I recall my Uncle telling about flying a support mission for the ground forces where they were contacted at their base and requested to strafe an area out in front of the troops. It was more of a, "You'll see a large ridge East of a stream, Don't shoot there! That's where we are."
    I think smoke of some sort was used on the ground but it dispersed rapidly.
     
  6. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    I did not say they marked them.

    CAS targeting was mostly done by radio with map references and visual cues “. . . your target is the copse on the west slope of hill 387 near the top. Grid coordinates are Able Charlie 892657 . . .” and then the liberal use colored panels on the ground to mark the location of friendly lines. It was simple and efficient.

    Indirect fire for artillery pretty much worked the same way. Call for a fire mission, describe the target so they pick the right ammo, get a spotting shot, make any adjustment, another spotting shot, and if on target, battery fire for effect. In many ways it was easier than CAS. The artillery guys knew where they were, had the corresponding maps and plotting boards and could figure out where the customer wanted the delivery without even having eyes on the target. Aircraft attached to artillery units could spot targets where a ground customer might not have visual . . . worked the same way, coordinates, spot shots, fire for effect, only the fire mission and adjustments originate from someone boring holes in the sky a safe distance away instead of peeking over the crest of a hill.

    Targets do not have to marked to be hit if you know what you’re doing. Of course if the customer calling for fire or an air strike uses the wrong coordinates he could have at best, a clear miss or, at worse, a major problem rapidly arriving in his immediate vicinity.

    You may wish read up on the subject. May I suggest:

    A basic start for the USAAF
    FM 31-35 Aviation in Support of Ground Forces 1942
    http://cdm16040.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p4013coll9/id/932

    then –

    TALO Notes (TALO = Tactical Air Liaison Officer)
    http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p4013coll8/id/4133

    The Tactical Air Force in the European Theater of Operations
    http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/eto/eto-054.pdf

    and don’t forget

    Marine Aviation in the Philippines
    https://archive.org/details/MarineAviationInThePhilippines

    Comparison studies:

    Comparative look at air-ground support doctrine and practice in World War II: with an appendix on current Soviet close air support doctrine
    http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll8/id/358/rec/1

    Case Studies in the Development of Close Air Support
    https://archive.org/details/CaseStudiesInTheDevelopmentOfCloseAirSupport

    And there are various CGSC theses:

    Development of organic light aviation in the Army Ground Forces in World War II
    http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll2/id/498/rec/4

    Trial by fire: forging American close air support doctrine, World War I through September 1944
    http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll2/id/200/rec/6

    Marine close air support in World War II
    http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll2/id/640/rec/100

    Historical look at close air support
    http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll2/id/66/rec/111

    History of the airborne forward air controller in Vietnam
    http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll2/id/246/rec/149

    These will do for a start. Some careful phrasing of searches even in a basic as Google will undoubtedly generate more. You can get pretty specific, it is all in how you word it. If you visit the Combined Arms Research Library (see: http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/) or a collection of Army Air Forces Historical Studies (see: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAFHS/) there is plenty to keep you occupied with reading.
     
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  7. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    .... and could be ignored ro misunderstood by the airmen.

    The full story of friendly fire in Normandy has yet to be told ;)
     

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