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SS Veterans march through Riga

Discussion in 'WWII Today' started by GRW, Mar 16, 2010.

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  1. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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  2. Fury 1991

    Fury 1991 New Member

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    I have no problems with this. They fought for what they thought was a just cause.
     
  3. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Same here, and if any of these Vets are like Remy was? theN I have zero problems with them trying to get any just recognition they might deserve.

    Thanks for posting this Mate--C.
     
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  4. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    Hmm.. how very wrong this is ..bet you wont find any not NAZI european who says this is okay .. resistance against the russians is something else as gloryfying SS 'heroism' openly .In any normal europe country the whole lot would have been sent straight to jail 90yrs plus old or not lol .
     
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  5. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    Not everything is black and white, from the article people claim they fought to free their people from Stalin's rule, others chose the lesser of two evils, some simply used the march as an excuse to pay respects to their comrades who were killed in the war.

    My personal philosophy is no matter when, where, or what side you fought for, as long as you fought like a good soldier (aka didn't do anything you shouldn't) you're ok by me.
     
  6. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    Oh boy - do I know what to say about that?

    Yes, okay let all the Nazi SS vetrans in this world march - let them display themselves and finally give them a chance to prove to the world public that they fought for what they thought was a just cause - freeing themselves from communism - kicking in Stalins balls - and as a meere side occasion some shootings, killings, of civilians (I heard that some of them were Jews - must have been communist jews - damn worthless scum-right?), - but after all they believed in it and just tried to free their contries from all these above mentioned issues.

    What do you need radical Muslim's and Neo Nazis for who deny the Holocoust and murdering of millions of civilians - if we come to the conclusion that "they" just fought for what they thought was a just cause.

    Carl - with all due respect towards your personal likings of a e.g. Remy - maybe - just maybe he was a "nice guy" - but does this justify the "Elite" of the Nazi military arm having fought for a "JUST" course?

    Regards
    Kruska
     
  7. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    Maybe its understood better if there would be 911 terrorist martyr rememberance BBQ's at Arlington ? I bet the world would be to small ..
    Nice these baltic states see their old SS men as heroes ,but it will surely backfire on their position within Europe . In all other Euro member states its a criminal offense in the same category as holocaust denieing !
     
  8. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    No one fights for the same cause so it's hard to single people out like that. The S.S. is a criminal organization but are all members criminals? A lot could be, but what do you do with those that aren't? On a personal scale RE:

    But public? That's an interesting question.
     
  9. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    All fanatics believe they fought for a just cause, should all of them be allowed to march? This being said I think they marched as Veterans and Independence fighters rather than SS. It's their way to say they are independent from Russia not nostalgic from Nazi Germany
     
  10. Totenkopf

    Totenkopf אוּרִיאֵל

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    Thats why everyone should go easier on the volunteers from the Baltic states then from other places, they did not fight for Hitler (Perhaps 95%), but rather they fought for their country that had been oppressed for a long time. The difference being, it wasn't the Heer that was taking volunteers.
     
  11. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    Well I am not European and I don't see a problem with the non- criminals marching, after all they were soldiers just like any member of the Heer, they fought and they died like anyother man. Yes the overall view of the SS is not a good one due to quite a few divisions in the military arm, but there are still a few divisions that simply did there job on the front line, and were considered elite and feared by the allies, and I think these men deserve the same respect as any soldier, as long as they don't carry on about killing jews or what not, just as a soldier doing his duty.
     
  12. hucks216

    hucks216 Member

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    What divisions are you referring to? Not all the SS divisions were considered elite by the Allies and of those that were generally considered an elite (1st Leibstandarte SS 'AH', 2nd SS Das Reich, 3rd SS Totenkopf, 5th SS Wiking & 12th SS Hitlerjugend Divisions) and feared to a certain degree all committed atrocities. The only 2 of the 'major' SS divisions that I can't recall reading of committing atrocities were the 9th SS 'Hohenstaufen' & 10th SS 'Frundsberg'. In fact the only other division from the first 12 numbered divisions that has no definite recorded atrocity is the 6th SS Nord.

    Axis History Factbook: Divisionen (Waffen-SS)
     
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  13. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    Perhaps you should read my post again for half your question is answered and the other half you answered yourself.
     
  14. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    Who says were talking about non criminals Tomcat ? Courts all over europe named the org for what is was : a criminal org its members actively involved in genocide..latvia included!
    When one doubts that , one is doing the same as holocaust denial !!

    These Baltic volunteers were just as fanatic as the German SS was and theres plenty of these guys today still on the list of wanted persons and not for wrong parking!!
    That people are fascinated by them as an org I can understand , collect their stuff myself ,but not a hair on my head that is trying to excuse them in any political way .

    The baltic states want to be part of europe ,then recognize your history . Openly letting these vets march is really very wrong and is not/will not be tolerated by the rest of europe .. we look upon them as seriously confused people .If the war would haven taken a bit longer and Latvia would have been thoroughly 'lebensraumed' a la Poland too they would have looked very different on this .But right now theyre being a disgrace to Europe sending out a very wrong message .

    It shocks me a bit that on WW2 forum so many are trying to see these people wrongly as 'freedom fighters' and would like to see honourable 'exceptions' , you all should know far better than that .

    Saddam was a nice guy too for those he liked , he was a freedom fighter too ,killing of his own countrymen was for a good cause and there should be a statue for him in washington ? You all would say i'm crazy when i say something idiotic like that .. but thats what you guys are doing excusing latvians for their uncanny behaviour in this.
    Wrong is wrong ..even today .

    If latvians want to give resistance to Russia a place , fine ,dont denie them that . When they want to name the fact many joined waffen SS as an act of resistance , fine ...but letting these old creepo's march openly as being heroes is simply glorifying Hitler and all he stood for .
    Holland had its 'confused' people too who joined ..but no marches here !And certainly not official ones !In a time where Europes member states are trying to form all the different members into a borderless europe this latvian story shows clearly theyre not ready for that yet over their past ..suppose they need more time to form their national historic opinion, something the rest of europe has already done over the past 65years and were 'grown' into .
    For the countries only free'ed after the 1990ies fall of the iron curtain its only 20 years about now ..not long to form a stable way of looking at the past . Most new EU members seem to be much better able to handle this subject , although they have the same iron curtain legacy ..
     
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  15. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Tomcat, would Australians be happy with the larger numbers of Baltic immigrants if they were to form an ss vetrans society and march thru Melbourne? Would that be an occasion that would pass off without comment or indeed knowing Aussie vets an occasion for more than straight talking.
     
  16. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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    No urgh,

    It should be Japanese - best suited - former prison camp guards - after all they fought for the Tenno and a goood and just cause - I am sure there are Japanese prison camp guards that were "nice" to them Aussie PoW's.

    They were "soldiers" who were commanded and forced to these tasks - and no grudges should be held against them. They were feared by the allies, and I think these men deserve the same respect as any soldier, as long as they don't carry on about killing chinese or what not, just as a soldier doing his duty.

    So let's see the Australians - reaction - when those non-criminals (I am sure they can proof it) have there big street-show/march through Melbourne, Sydney or whatever city in Japan.

    Oh and as a sidenote:

    Members of the SS - regardless of WaffenSS or Allgemeine SS were not only feared by the allies but by every German and non SS member that was against the war or thought about surrendering or ending the war.

    Regards
    Kruska
     
  17. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Hi Andy, I dont have proper time to reply but-for now-all I can say is_i dont know. Ill be back tomorrow-_C,.
     
  18. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    I pondered this situation inhand as I read the Posts from others. Many would justifiably be correct in having problems with the march,
    especially the Jewish Population. The SS did carry a horrific reputation, but so did some of the Allied forces, War crimes did happen on
    both sides { Documented Fact} Yes theirs was greater just like the Japanese. But two wrongs never justifies a right.

    An Expression comes to mind which States. The winners of War write their own History. Just like in Texas today the history is being rewritten
    to suet there point of view. { See The Colbear Report Last night}.

    We The Allied Forces around the World have Remembrance Day for WWI and the Second World War Vets or Vets of all past wars.
    To remember their sacrifices and their endeavors to persevere against all odds, especially remembering the Dead who paid the heights price.

    If the SS Vets would be marching in their Nazi Uniforms, this would be bad form. But if their marching just to remember the dead, can we justify
    Stopping them from doing so.

    There's no Winners in War, especially no Glory. Just devastation human misery and carnage.

    We must Remember so the same mistakes are not made, in hindsight today I see we still haven't learnt. Genocide and Wars are strong and doing just fine.
     
  19. Heinrich

    Heinrich Member

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    thats just the point Spaniard ..their gouvernment is allowing them to do as former SS , not as just old fighters and therefore is allowing gloryfing SS and in a way legalizing membership of such an org that way ! That is at least very unrespectfull to all the rest of us in europe.
    Why would any country want to be looked upon as NAZI sympatizers by others who's unity they want to join ? Like it is happening now it will serious hurt our Euro opinion on them . Like i said in other (new) member states this doesnt happen ! The whole lot would be arrested doing so and not for just a fine .Its not a discussable issue either , its punishable by law everywhere else and for good reason .
     
  20. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Yes It's true what you stated about being against the Law, their government is Allowing them to march as former SS, how else would they march as and remember their dead? I know it's in bad taste and will anger many, but if no SS Uniforms are worn and they state It's not to Glorify the SS or Nazi Germany they would not be breaking the Law, as I understand it.

    Yes It does leave a bad taste in your mouth either way, but sometimes we have to be also tolerant if these Individuals are doing it in Good Faith, and just remembering their dead.

    If Not I'm with you throw the hole lot in Jail ;) Either way Public Opinion will be against them.

    Anything SS is Still fresh in Euro Minds, British Prince Harry I think wore a Nazi Uniform at a Party and he received a World wide Public flogging for it, and had to issue ample public apologies for those Actions.
     
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