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Suicidal weapons

Discussion in 'Wonder Weapons' started by Proud South Korean, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. Proud South Korean

    Proud South Korean Member

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    Does anybody know about the bats/dogs/miniature tanks?
    It seems the Germans developed small WWI looking tanks and remote-controlled them. They were filled with bombs and they crashed them into enemy trenches, machine gun nests, tanks, etc... However, the remotes only went so far, it went about only 100 yards, so I think it was later scrapped
    The Americans developed bat bombs. They strapped bombs onto bats, trained them, then let them fly by releasing them from bombers. They then torpedoed into Japan. However, they seem to lose consciousness or something, so it wasn't much of a success
    The Soviets developed dog bombs. They strapped bombs into their dogs, like the Americans did to their bats. They trained them to go to tanks, and they used them to destroy German tanks. Problem was, that the dogs were trained with Soviet tanks, so they instead went for Soviet tanks!

    Does anybody else knows of suicidal weapons like these? Or have more information on them? I know the kamikaze, but anything else?
     
  2. Spartanroller

    Spartanroller Ace

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    The miniature tanks you mention were the Goliath;

    Goliath tracked mine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    But several other nations used similar equipment. They were not a suicide weapon, they were not scrapped because of not going far enough, and they were not usually used to crash into trenches and tanks. they were a demolition tool, most often used to clear battlefield obstacles and minefields, and occasionally small bunkers.

    the bat bomb worked very well by most accounts, but was dropped for reasons which are uncertain. The bats would probably not consider this a suicide weapon if they could talk.

    The dog mine story is told in many different versions from almost all nations involved in the war. None of the accounts I have seen have been very credible, although there may be others - it appears the idea was tested, but not used operationally although there are many stories. Most nations certainly used dogs for other jobs.

    The most well known 'suicide' weapons other than the kamikaze are the Japanese anti-tank lunge mines, manned torpedoes, and explosive power boats, although reports of these having been used are few and far between. The Russians are often said to have marched through minefields with linked arms to clear the mines, but these reports are also widely believed to be largely untrue. The Germans developed some piloted kamikaze style weapons at the end of the war but never used them although a few pilots were ordered to ram enemy bombers.

    Most of the stories you read about suicide weapons in ww2 except perhaps of the kamikaze are exaggerated or simply untrue, although many ideas were certainly discussed.

    hope this helps :)
     
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  3. Proud South Korean

    Proud South Korean Member

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    The miniature tank was the goliath you mentioned. Thanks for your help!
    Also, I'm pretty sure the dog bomb was true. I saw it in a lot of sensible books.
     
  4. Spartanroller

    Spartanroller Ace

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    You're welcome :)
     
  5. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    I've seen the dog bombs described also, but I wonder if they count as suicide weapons since the "operator" does not know he is going to die?

    Let me illustrate with what I admit is an outlandish example. Suppose the army issues a soldier what they tell him is a bullet-proof vest and tell him to assault an enemy position. If he gets close enough, they can detonate the vest, incidentally killing him. He's not a suicide attacker, he's a victim.
     
  6. Vladd

    Vladd Member

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    I thought although the bat bombs worked well, burning down half the American base they were tested on, they were cancelled as a slightly better solution came on line, some little scheme called The Manhattan Project I believe.
     
  7. Spartanroller

    Spartanroller Ace

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    For the relative low cost of the bat bomb, it seems there is no reason not to use them, Manhattan project or not, as their effectiveness on a Japanese wood and paper city would have been better than the test targets, but they were cancelled anyway. Anyone out there know why?
     
  8. Vladd

    Vladd Member

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    Well according to Wikipedia even though I don't like quoting it
    Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can confirm this.
     
  9. Spartanroller

    Spartanroller Ace

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    I hope someone knows more - they can't have known for sure when the A-bombs would come ready in 1944, and even if they would definitely work, so I can't see that being the real reason to cancel.

    maybe this needs a new thread?
     
  10. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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  11. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I seem to recall there was a problem with how high they flew as well. The bats didn't react well to the low temperatures at elevation or for that matter probably didn't react well to low oxygen.
     
  12. ULITHI

    ULITHI Ace

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    I remember my art and photography teacher in high school (who was sort of a WWII buff) told me that the Russians used dogs with bombs on them.

    He said the Russians trained them to jump up on a German tank and stand next to the turret and wait until the bomb exploded.

    I don't know if that is true or not, but the conversation sticks with me.
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    My understanding was that the dogs basically had a tilt rod on their backs and when they ran under a tank the rod would trigger the bomb. I have read (on the internet so take it for what it's worth) that there were a fair number of tanks so destroyed including a mix of Soviet and German ones.
     
  14. Johnny_Sideburns

    Johnny_Sideburns Member

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    Hi,
    Im new here. Sorry for reserecting this thread, but I read a recent account of the Russian bomb dogs.
    These dogs were either pure bread or of mixed breed but had to have enough size carry the explosives efficiently. They were trained by only feeding the dog under moving tanks. They used their own tanks for training but set the dogs on the German tanks in combat. The explosives in this account were detonated by a lever on the dogs back that struck the tank.
    The account was on the eastern front in late 44. When a group of Russian Infantry soldiers heard about these dogs arriving nearby they decided to go and see them. They found the dogs and the handlers relaxing at a HQ behind the lines. The dogs appeared unremarkeble resting with their guides. A attack that was expected in the morning would be where the dogs were intended on being used. When the attack came German armor advanced toword Russian lines. As the Germans got closer the dogs were released and promply run out and under the German tanks and blew them up. The remaining German armor lost its nerve and retreated. As the Soviets got geared up for the counter attack some of the dogs were still loose on the battlefield. As the Russian tanks started out on the counter attack the remaining dogs spotted the T34s and promply ran to them and they too blew up. Not so scientific. In the account the author stated he never saw any more dogs the rest of the war.
     

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