Discussion in 'Atomic Bombs In the Pacific' started by PzJgr, Aug 20, 2009.
And what were the US supposed to do to end the war?
Yeah, your right, instead of dropping the bomb, whe should have just let the Japanese burn or starve. Since, the Army Air Force was turning every Japanese population center into ashes. Burning out Japanese industry , killing many thousands, and making many millions of Japanese homeless. The United States Navy had, by mid to late 1944, cut off the Home Islands of Japan from the rest of their controlled territories. As a result Japan was receiving very little in the way of natural resources and food supplies with which she needed to continue the war. Without the necessary foodstuffs being brought in from Japan's occupied territories, her population was slowly starving to death. However, the effects of the naval blockade were only beginning to be felt by the Japanese population in 1945, had the war continued into 1946 or 1947, the effects would have been truly horrific. Then, let us not forget the planned invasion of Japan and how costly that would have been.
They did not deserve it, of course they did not deserve it.
They earned it.
And those who think the Americans are so so evil for employing the atomic bombs as a means to force the Japanese to surrender should bear in mind what a US Army Quartermaster Corps officer once told me: "We knew we could supply troops ashore with whatever they needed for as long as it took; what we did not know was what we were going to do with 30 million dead Japanese." So, which is worse? Shoot them, burn them, starve them, or see if the bombs bring them to their senses. And remember, who dies first when a population starves to death . . . look across the Yellow Sea, it sure is not the army.
Gentlemen, please be cognizant that Capt Ben is a younger newer member who is learning about WWII and is of one of the generations since WWII who was taught the atomic bomb is the greatest evil to use against another nation.
Most of our teachers do not take the time to put the bombing of Japan into the context of its time - and if Ben chooses to research further on the Forum and in other resources he will no doubt have the opportunity to educate himself as to the reasons that lead to its use in 1945 and how it also lead reasonable nations to everything in their power to ensure it wasn't used again.
Cpt Ben, may I suggest you go to the library and check out a book entitled Downfall - The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire by Richard B Frank. If they don't have it, tell them you want it on inter-loan.
Not seeking to change your mind, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. You should first be aware, however, of the facts without the coloring of the intervening years.
Michelle and Rich, thank you for the sensitive way you handled this. We need to encourage as well as educate our fellow Rogues. That is especially true of the younger set who have not yet had a wide enough experience to put such a vast topic in perspective.
Welcome aboard Capt Ben.
Lets hear how you were taught about the atomic bombing. I'm curious for whats being taught in the schools these days.
With two daughters, one just starting grad school at GMU and the other starting her sophomore year W&M, I am well aware of some of what sometimes passes for education in the US high school education system. With a history degree of my own, I was often appalled at what came home as fact . . . most of the time, fortunately, so were the girls, but unfortunately they were often faced with "cooperate and graduate". So, the watch words were "the book is wrong," "breathe through your nose," and "drive on."
I can't speak for other school systems, but the one I taught in for 34 years has a pretty good history program from seventh to twelfth grade. That includes three years of US History, World Geography, European History, and History of the non-Western World. Having spoken to a number of graduates, most felt they were well prepared to deal with college level courses. The school district my children attended (over twenty years ago) was not quite so intense, but generally OK.
This may be an irrelevant, stupid, useless post, but in Hearts of Iron II, I was playing as Poland with the Doomsday expansion pack. It was looking bad. We had won the West, almost the entirety of Europe, but the U.S. were bounding on our flanks. Once they took Moscow, I knew it was over. I reinforced my borders with forts and stationed units all along the border, with most strength at the center. Then they came. They overran my defenses in a week, forcing me to withdraw to Warsaw and give up all of my surrounding provinces because I couldn't hold back the American juggernaut. They kept attacking, waning down my strength and organization little by little. But I held out. I watched as Europe was retaken by American forces. Suddenly, a bomber unit with escorts slowly proceded into my airspace. Suddenly:
NUCLEAR STRIKE LAUNCHED AGAINST: Warsaw.
Suddenly, my units were at 1/4 strength, some completely destroyed, my forts, supplies, my IC, my city, were gone. Immediately they attacked and destroyed any remaining troops. And you know what I thought just before they took my capital?
How dare they. How dare they cheat me out of my glorious last stand, how dare they destroy MY capital, how dare they give me no choice but to capitulate.
Now, I'm personally still for giving the Japanese what they earned throughout their 8 years of war. But keep in mind what damage this must have done to get the die-hard Japanese to get a god, the Emperor himself surrender to the enemy. The atomic bombs were no firecracker.
Well, lets not forget the most important part of teaching, the teachers!
Curriculum does have its part to play, but when you come right down to it, it is the teachers who are teaching the classes that hold sway in the matter. Truthfully, I don't remember any of my high school or junior high history teachers, however, I do remember my 5th Grade teacher, Mrs. Kasko. She was the only teacher whom I could, or would let me discuss history with. Most of the other teachers, it seemed that the conversation just went in one ear and out the other. But, not her, we could sit and have an intelligent discussion and she did not make me feel like I was wasting her time.
Teachers willing to listen as well as lecture are exceedingly rare, but they are the gems. I'm thankful I've had more than a few of them and I hope that on those occasions I've taught I've been one of them. (I taught music, not history, so the contentious debates didn't generally involve nuclear bombs. Nevertheless, they were there.)
A little from my father's letter to his folks dated August 9, 1945, "...Just think, V-J Day might even be on the day you receive this. It’s just unbelievable. To think that eleven pounds of uranium bomb [could] indirectly bring an end to such a terrible war. Of course everyone is jubilant over the possibility that it will be over in a matter of hours or maybe days or weeks, but no wild celebrating like you’d imagine..."
I just found this on the National Geographic Channel, and it is amazing.
National Geographic Channel Videos Watch Animals, Dog Whisperer, Adventure, Science and History Videos
and goto page 31-33 and choose 24 Hours After Hiroshima, very fascinating first-hand accounts.
Just found this one-
"A British soldier's photo album showing at close hand the devastating aftermath of the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima has emerged after 66 years.
Sapper Ronald Taylor was posted to Japan just weeks after the country surrendered following the dropping of the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
The British were tasked with trying to restore some of the infrastructure to the obliterated cities in the aftermath of World War II."
Walking through a nuclear winter: British soldier's incredible photographs of Hiroshima in the aftermath of atomic bomb blast | Mail Online
Some great images there. Thanks for the find Gordon
Good Article !
Some of those comments are very sad!
Necroing this thread to post a map:
Would be interesting to work the scale out and superimpose the blast area over various cities like New York or Berlin to see what a weapon of that size would've/could've done...