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The Best Submachine Gun

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by Smiley 2.0, Dec 20, 2014.

  1. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Probably not this specific example, but similar ones built to mil-specs. They and ACOG's are nearly universally issued today. Many ACOG's now also incorporate a red dot type sight.
     
  2. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Thanks for the info KB. I have handled many of the subs discussed but never operated an active one.
     
  3. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    There is enough play in the magazine well that recoil can change the feed angle and jam the gun - if you hang on to the magazine. German soldiers were trained to hang onto the well itself above the magazine. Allied troops picking up an MP40 usually didn't know this and since the mag seemed to be the natural place for your hand they would jam and you will read accounts from GI's mentioning how unreliable the MP40 was.
     
  4. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I have an almost identical example (a Browning make) on my AR. One of the advantages of these is that if they fail (anything with a battery will eventually fail), you can still flip up the iron sights and see the front post through the glass. They only cost $39 - $49, so what the hell! Another neat thing is that you can zero one simply by looking through the iron sights and adjusting the dot to the top of the post. Very versatile.
     
  5. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    You're welcome! Most people don't understand that bit about open vs closed bolts, and how that old open bolt design affects real world accuracy. The best modern subguns (the MP5 for example) fire from a closed bolt, so you don't have that delay or the weight of the bolt being thrown forward prior to igniting the round. It's much easier to get distant hits with the newer closed bolt designs.
     
  6. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    The biggest advantage from a military standpoint, IMO, is the tendancy of people with less training, shooting time, to close their non-dominant eye when using the standard "peep" sight, thus reducing situational awareness in a combat situation. The red dot type sights make it easier, more natural, to keep both eyes open and therefore more aware. You can more and look around while maintaining stock/spot weld and when it's necessary to engage a target your dominant eye quickly shifts focus through the sight placing the aim point on the target.
    I agree with your point about battery failure.
     
  7. Smiley 2.0

    Smiley 2.0 Smiles

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    Does anyone think that the German MP44 was an example of a submachine gun that was "over-engineered" so to say?
     
  8. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    A submachine gun by definition, fires pistol rounds. The STG44 fired a rifle round. It's a completely different animal.
     
  9. Smiley 2.0

    Smiley 2.0 Smiles

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    Okay thanks Kodiak. I never knew that about the MP44. That makes sense.
     
  10. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Wasn't the STG originally designated as a submachine gun, MP43-44, because of Hitler's opposition to the use of the intermediate 7.92 x 33 Kurz cartridge? IIRC, he discovered the deception sometime later but allowed development and production to continue. I also believe it was Hitler that renamed the MP44, the Sturmgewehr, or storm rifle, which is the reason for the designation change to STG-44.
     
  11. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    That's it in a nutshell. The 7.92 x 33 has about the same ballistics as the 7.62 x 39 (AK round), or the .30/30 Winchester. The ordnance people hid the development from Hitler, but once he saw the results he reversed his opposition and embraced it.
     
  12. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    PPsh because its cheap and sprays fire in close combat........however for weapons which need more accurary I would like too chose better manufactured guns (eg. sniper rifles). But for a SMG probaly the russian one is ideal and that what they needed for raw recruits send to combat.

    Edit, btw. if anyone is interested in info on the UZI just ask, I have some knowledge from Luftwaffe times in the 90ties. Or other cold war weapons.
     
  13. Sarge

    Sarge Member

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    I have owned and shot both the Thompson and MP 40 for 50+ yrs. My first full auto was an MP 40 in about 1955. I have also shot the PPSh, but so far have never owned one. Some day with any luck!
    Of the 3 I prefer the MP 40, but I can shoot the Thompson just as well.

    I also have had MP 43 & 44s for close to 50 yrs. I bought my current MP 43 shooter in 1975. It is a Very controllable weapon on full auto. I can put a full magazine in a 2' circle at 200 yds on full auto - that is hold the trigger down till the mag is empty. NOT the proper way to treat a full auto, but I did it once to see what I could do with it.
    The original designation for what became the MP 43 and later the Stg 44 was MKb 42 = machine carbine model 42. This is in reality exactly what the weapon was because it shot an intermediate cartridge and was capable of full auto fire. It was at hitlers instance that the designation was changed from Machine Pistol to Sturm Gewehr after the weapon had been in production for over a year.

    Here are some photos of the heard. ups forgot I STILL HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT HOW TO POST PHOTOS ON THIS FORUM.
    Sarge
     
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  14. ozjohn39

    ozjohn39 Member

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    Only ever fired the 'OWEN' SMG, and that was a BIG thrill!

    .......and the 'BREN' LMG and that was a BIGGER thrill!


    534
     
  15. Sarge

    Sarge Member

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    I also have a Mk 1 Bren gun. It is one of my favorite full autos to shoot!
    I like shooting bowling pins or similar, from the hip.
    Sarge
     

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